Hmr without a mod

[the enigma]

Just wondering has / does anyone use their hmr,or wmr without a moderator. Seeing as we can do nothing to silence the sonic crack, does the extra noise of the muzzle blast make that much difference to quarry?

 

Cheers

David

Edited August 10, 2012 by the enigma

[T-Bolt94]

Without a mod my HMR is wild...very loud crack sends anything running/flying. With my A-Tec mod I get a significant reduction and although the sonic crack still remains the sound wave is distorted and makes it a bit harder for the quarry to determine the direction of the shot. I personally would never hunt without one, and most certainly not at night as its loud enough :L Still think it is a wonderful calibre! #BeingControversial

[Deiseboy]

Spent a lot of time without one on my hmr, dont know why I didnt get one sooner, will never go back to using it without it, you nearly always get a follow up shot because the rabbits dont know where the bang is coming from and just freeze..

 

I dont find the wmr that loud at all and I know lots of people took the mod off it because the noise reduction wasn't worth the extra weight/length or money.

[Gimlet]

Few ultra sonic rounds moderate better than the HMR. The tiny bullet has little mass, produces a small sonic pressure wave and so a relatively mild crack when it does break the sound barrier. HV .22 LR or WMR rounds are worse for sonic crack to my ears.

 

If you can do so safely, fire an HMR in an enclosed space or a large building into something safe like a pile of sand, with and without a mod. Its amazing the difference that little metal tube makes. You'll never shoot without a mod again.

 

It will be very interesting to see how the .17 Hornet compares with the HMR with a mod. If my theory is right it should be milder than a .22 Hornet.

A few PW members have ordered .17 Hornets. Results awaited with interest.

[Dekers]

All my rifles have mods, they are all field tools.

 

It's not always all about the quarry, there are your shooting pals, neighbours and yourself to think about. In addition you will tend to find your accuracy improves.

 

Mods ALWAYS reduce the overall sound, and with a bit of work and thought, balance of the rifle can still be maintained.

[kent]

There is no point to a non moderated HMR, the mods are small and light and don't effect balance in practical terms. comparing .17 and .22 is interesting, my moderated hornet is certainly quieter than the moderated HMR ever was (though the hornet carries a more substantial moderator, it also burns more powder). directional sound is practically illiminated with a moderator as the sonic crack is a reflected sound off objects while the bullet travels downrange. the crack still scares stuff its just they sometimes run towards you not away.

[aister]

when i got my 17hmr first i got a mod with it but it wasnt long before i ditched it. the rifle was more accurate without it, there was more bullet drop with the mod on and i found it the bang made no difference to the rabbits, also a pain in the buttocks to clean. just my opinion though.

[kent]

when i got my 17hmr first i got a mod with it but it wasnt long before i ditched it. the rifle was more accurate without it, there was more bullet drop with the mod on and i found it the bang made no difference to the rabbits, also a pain in the buttocks to clean. just my opinion though.

That is a moderator or threading fault, moderators dont rob anything noticeable in velocity its a myth

[the enigma]

Thanks for the replies........... the reason I asked was that,I'm finding the rifle(20" barrel plus SAK) a handful to use in the cab. I was thinking of ditching the mod,but I don't fancy having to re zero when I put the mod back on every time I'm out shooting on foot.

[tweedledee]

you could shorten it

[the enigma]

you could shorten it

 

Is there anyone local that's got a good rep for this sort of work?

Edited August 11, 2012 by the enigma

[Deiseboy]

when i got my 17hmr first i got a mod with it but it wasnt long before i ditched it. the rifle was more accurate without it, there was more bullet drop with the mod on and i found it the bang made no difference to the rabbits, also a pain in the buttocks to clean. just my opinion though.

 

 

As said, that must be a fault with your threading and the bullet may be hitting barely off the mod before it exits.

The bullet never touches the moderator and lads I know chrono'd round with and without a mod and there was no change.

 

A mod will give a lower point of impact because the weight of the barrel pulls the barrel down ever so slightly if it is free floating, another reason it could have reduced accuracy is IF you have a free floated barrel the mod way pull it down slightly to where its touching the stock in places and cause inconsistency. Zero the rifle with the mod on and stick to that and there will be no difference in drop.

 

This myth about the drop seems to come from video games.

[Verminator 66]

yes think its like chalk and cheese

 

I would have a mod on all cal guns helps in all ways

[vole]

I tried my WMR without the moderator and it sounded like a centre fire ,then again it has a shortened barrel . I was surprised .

[casts_by_fly]

It will be very interesting to see how the .17 Hornet compares with the HMR with a mod. If my theory is right it should be milder than a .22 Hornet.

A few PW members have ordered .17 Hornets. Results awaited with interest.

 

the 17 hornet moderates well. I have a SAK on mine and it is pretty good. There is the usual loud crack, but that it is. You only have ~12 grains of powder to moderate, so not a ton of gas. There is a pretty good crack, but what do you expect with a bullet going 3600 fps.

 

Thanks

Rick

[Gimlet]

Thanks for the replies........... the reason I asked was that,I'm finding the rifle(20" barrel plus SAK) a handful to use in the cab. I was thinking of ditching the mod,but I don't fancy having to re zero when I put the mod back on every time I'm out shooting on foot.

 

You shouldn't have to re-zero a rifle when the mod is refitted. If you do that indicates poor quality thread cutting. A good reason for not scimping if you have a barrel cut yourself.

My HW60s have their mods removed after every use. I never have to re-zero. There is no MPI change shooting with or without mod either. That may be an advantage of a 14" barrel.

[the enigma]

You shouldn't have to re-zero a rifle when the mod is refitted. If you do that indicates poor quality thread cutting. A good reason for not scimping if you have a barrel cut yourself.

My HW60s have their mods removed after every use. I never have to re-zero. There is no MPI change shooting with or without mod either. That may be an advantage of a 14" barrel.

 

Tried the rifle out at the weekend, both with and without the mod. As you say,there was no real noticeable change in POI,although it was a bit breezy,so I suppose that could have masked any minor differences. I always had been under the impression that the extra weight of the mod would affect POI.

 

On the noise front,it isn't until you shoot the hmr without the mod,that you realise just how hard your mod's actually working. Those wee rounds make a big noise.

 

Looking at the cost of getting the barrel shortened and threaded properly plus proofing,it may make more sense to consider trading in against a shorter barrelled rifle.

[Deiseboy]

Tried the rifle out at the weekend, both with and without the mod. As you say,there was no real noticeable change in POI,although it was a bit breezy,so I suppose that could have masked any minor differences. I always had been under the impression that the extra weight of the mod would affect POI.

 

On the noise front,it isn't until you shoot the hmr without the mod,that you realise just how hard your mod's actually working. Those wee rounds make a big noise.

 

Looking at the cost of getting the barrel shortened and threaded properly plus proofing,it may make more sense to consider trading in against a shorter barrelled rifle.

 

If the mod is lightweight on rimfires it often doesn't pull the barrel down to effect POI..

I have a heavy 18" barrel and the 4" aluminium mod changes the POI ever so slightly.

 

Heavier longer mods on centre fires pull the free floated barrel down and it could be 6" lower. nothing to do with thread quality.

[Gimlet]

If the mod is lightweight on rimfires it often doesn't pull the barrel down to effect POI..

I have a heavy 18" barrel and the 4" aluminium mod changes the POI ever so slightly.

 

Heavier longer mods on centre fires pull the free floated barrel down and it could be 6" lower. nothing to do with thread quality.

 

Agreed the light ally mods like SAK should make no difference at all to the the bedding of the barrel, and thus POI. I mention the thread cutting quality - or more accurately the quality of the land at the base of the thread - because some shooters have found their POI changing when the mod is removed and refitted. If that is happening the mod is not seating consistantly. This can happen with poor quality after-market threading jobs. (It can happen too with factory cuts on some makes, but that'll start a whole new debate. We won't go there.)

Anyone having an after-market thread-cut should have it done properly by a reputable gunsmith not in a back-room of a gun shop. It can ruin a good rifle.

You shouldn't be stuck with having to leave the mod on all the time. That's the best way to ruin the crown.

[the enigma]

If the mod is lightweight on rimfires it often doesn't pull the barrel down to effect POI..

I have a heavy 18" barrel and the 4" aluminium mod changes the POI ever so slightly.

 

Heavier longer mods on centre fires pull the free floated barrel down and it could be 6" lower. nothing to do with thread quality.

 

I suppose when you think about, a SAK doesn't weigh that much.

 

You shouldn't have to re-zero a rifle when the mod is refitted. If you do that indicates poor quality thread cutting. A good reason for not scimping if you have a barrel cut yourself.

My HW60s have their mods removed after every use. I never have to re-zero. There is no MPI change shooting with or without mod either. That may be an advantage of a 14" barrel.

 

Have you ever had any problems with mods burning out prematurely on the 14" barrel? I read somewhere that it can supposedly be a problem with short barrelled HMRs.

[Deiseboy]

Agreed the light ally mods like SAK should make no difference at all to the the bedding of the barrel, and thus POI. I mention the thread cutting quality - or more accurately the quality of the land at the base of the thread - because some shooters have found their POI changing when the mod is removed and refitted. If that is happening the mod is not seating consistantly. This can happen with poor quality after-market threading jobs. (It can happen too with factory cuts on some makes, but that'll start a whole new debate. We won't go there.)

Anyone having an after-market thread-cut should have it done properly by a reputable gunsmith not in a back-room of a gun shop. It can ruin a good rifle.

You shouldn't be stuck with having to leave the mod on all the time. That's the best way to ruin the crown.

Yup agree with you 100% about getting it done by a proper gunsmith. The term gun smith is thrown around a lot here in ROI and some lads with a pillar drill and lathe call themselves that.. When I got mine done it was brought to one of the top 2 RFD's in the country, bit more expensive but do it right once.

There is a fair amount of dirt builds up on the crown and id imagine the amount if the mod was left on full time, another thing about leaving it on full time is the thread will bind from heat expansion/contraction and you will have serious hassle getting it off without damaging the threads.

 

You'd also have a less chance of poi change in your 14" barrel because its a shorter lever than 18-22" so the weight isnt as "top heavy"

[1in9]

I suppose when you think about, a SAK doesn't weigh that much.

 

Have you ever had any problems with mods burning out prematurely on the 14" barrel? I read somewhere that it can supposedly be a problem with short barrelled HMRs.

 

Friend of mine shoots a CZ cut to 13" and in inspection there was a touch of gas cutting on his SAK, nothing to effect accuracy though and he shoots it a lot. If you were shooting thousands and thousands of rounds and really eroded the mod you can buy SAK parts from importers Jackson rifles cheap enough http://www.jacksonri...com/sak22lr.htm

Edited August 15, 2012 by 1in9