Vipa Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hes the one avoiding going to Sweden to clear his name. If hes not guilty. No... He is avoiding going to Sweden because he wil be one step closer to US custody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 No... He is avoiding going to Sweden because he wil be one step closer to US custody Spot on man , He only left Sweden as he was told by the prosecutor that he was free to leave! Going back now means an almost certain quick flight to USA and a jail term he probably wont ever be released from! Its not about the charges in Sweden, do not be fooled into thinking this is what its all about. Sorry there are no charges in Sweden!!! As he hasnt been charged with anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) No... He is avoiding going to Sweden because he wil be one step closer to US custody How do you know that even if their was no chance of him going to the us that he would have gone to Sweden for questioning. Personally i think he new the risks so no point crying if he has to face the consequences. Edited August 22, 2012 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Also . . . I’d have a lot more respect for the guy if he used his hacking skills to try and track down AQ supporters and those who fund terrorism. Perhaps he could use his skills to find online predators, those who spread child pron, spammers, international con artist and the like. But he won’t do that, because; It doesn’t make you rich and famous. Traditionally the US has been a much easier target as they aren’t as aggressive as terrorists and thugs when you annoy them. He’s a ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Also . . . I’d have a lot more respect for the guy if he used his hacking skills to try and track down AQ supporters and those who fund terrorism. Perhaps he could use his skills to find online predators, those who spread child pron, spammers, international con artist and the like. But he won’t do that, because; It doesn’t make you rich and famous. Traditionally the US has been a much easier target as they aren’t as aggressive as terrorists and thugs when you annoy them. He’s a ****. I think that is pretty much exactly what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I think that is pretty much exactly what they are. Yup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I think that’s just anti US rhetoric. On a political world scale perhaps they are a big bully – but to compare them to terrorists is plain silly. Nothing the US has done can be compared to 9/11, 7/7, IRA or Basque bombings In war there is always collateral damage, but the US never go out with the intention of killing as many civilians as possible. But on an individual scale the US are not bullies. As a country they offer huge amounts of personal liberty and freedoms. Up until JA posted those classified documents online he was being mostly ignored, even though he was posting a lot of ‘bad’ stuff. The US was restricted by its own laws about what they could do to stop him. I think he had a few lawsuits and warnings, but nothing he really needed to worry about – he was protected behind free speech and journalism laws. Had be posted all of that about Iraq, Iran or half the middle east or Russia then he’d have been taken out pretty damn quickly. Imagine if he’d hacked Mossad and posted some of their confidential tactical decisions online – you think he’d still be alive now? He’s spent the last few years pushing his luck and ever increasingly trying to embarrass and annoy the US, and now he’s crossed a line and he’s terrified. (and he has every reason to be.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) I think that’s just anti US rhetoric. On a political world scale perhaps they are a big bully – but to compare them to terrorists is plain silly. Nothing the US has done can be compared to 9/11, 7/7, IRA or Basque bombings In war there is always collateral damage, but the US never go out with the intention of killing as many civilians as possible. But on an individual scale the US are not bullies. As a country they offer huge amounts of personal liberty and freedoms. Up until JA posted those classified documents online he was being mostly ignored, even though he was posting a lot of ‘bad’ stuff. The US was restricted by its own laws about what they could do to stop him. I think he had a few lawsuits and warnings, but nothing he really needed to worry about – he was protected behind free speech and journalism laws. Had be posted all of that about Iraq, Iran or half the middle east or Russia then he’d have been taken out pretty damn quickly. Imagine if he’d hacked Mossad and posted some of their confidential tactical decisions online – you think he’d still be alive now? He’s spent the last few years pushing his luck and ever increasingly trying to embarrass and annoy the US, and now he’s crossed a line and he’s terrified. (and he has every reason to be.) Good lord that's a little short sighted... The CIA have allegedly instigated and manipulated many a coup so they can install a regime compliant to the US will (usually in oil rich states) They are the worst kind of terrorists, the state sponsored kind, particularly when the state sponsoring you is the biggest boy in the school! Torture illegal... yep... but only as long as it's on home soil... no problem, lets just fly the suspect to someone elses country and do it there and give it an inocuous name like... Rendition Edited August 23, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Fair enough. But, given the choice would you rather make an enemy of the US or Afghanistan or Isreal? If you were to rank global evils would you put the CIA ahead or behind AQ or the IRA? That’s a rhetorical question BTW. But, I just think some people get a bit blinkered when it comes to America and see them as a big bully. On a global political scale everyone is in the fight, it’s not a schoolyard it’s a Royal Rumble wresting ring, it’s just the America is one of the big guys and is winning. But, from an individual political activist point of view – it’s relatively safe to take a fight to the US. They tend not to bite back as long as no violence is committed. It’s not so easy to take such a fight to the REAL bad guys as they’ll just kill you. Edit – I’m fairly sure you didn’t mean it literally. But when you say ‘State sponsored terrorism is the worse kind’ I disagree. International political wrangling isn’t terrorism, it’s just politics. The worse kind of terrorists are the ones that fly planes into building or blow up tube trains. I think it’s wrong to compare the two. Yes, the US (and every country) do questionable things for their countries profit, but let’s not compare that with fundamentalists blowing up hundreds and thousands of civilians. Edit 2 – This is all getting a bit political actually – which is my fault. I came here to make shooting friends and play with guns, so I’ll apologies for going down the political road and take a step back from this discussion. Political discussions rarely end well. (I won’t delete my comments though as it’ll ****** the continuity of the thread, and I will read any replies. ) PS – the John Inman photo is great. Edited August 23, 2012 by Robl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Well I don't agree with you Robl but I am not going to come and extradite you to a foreign country and tie you up in a cage for no proven reason. Nor am I going to send an unmanned aircraft to blow up a house and those around it that I think you might be in. Lucky I'm not a terrorist. ps. I'm not sure about all the rights and wrongs of what USA does in the name of War on Terror but I am pretty confident there are some wrongs in there and their mission title is a bit of an oxymoron. Edited August 23, 2012 by 39TDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 If you were a terrorist you might tie someone up in a cage for the crime of being foreign, then saw their head off with a blunt knife in front of a camera and broadcast it over the internet to the world. As I see it, the world was rubbing along reasonably until a bunch of utter lunatics, using Islam as a guise, started brainwashing vulnerable young men into thinking that the Koran should be interpreted into a war against the "evil" west who allowed their women to show their faces, arms, legs and even baps if we're lucky. And a host of other "un Islamic" things for which the west should be destroyed. They then flew a load of planes into buildings housing innocent people and blew up trains and buses full of innocent people in an act of extreme provocation. The **** storm that's followed has been entirely deserved. Unfortunately along the way it was used as a convenient excuse by Western powers to include other brown men in the general reprisals, so Iraq got invaded. The result of the broadening of the response was ironically that more and more vulnerable young men fell under the spell of an increasingly radicalised Muslin culture. As a result, even in the more general Muslim communities it is now common and even normal for women to be covered up in the full berka or hijab. A sight which was almost unheard of in the west 15 or so years ago. There has been a general radicalisation and entrenchment of moral positions as a direct result of the original terrorist act. Naturally the Jews in the form of Israel have done absolutely nothing but stick pins in the Arabs and are probably more to blame for the current state of the world than anyone, perhaps except the Americans who are too spineless to say to Israel that they need to stop, but then a lot of very powerful Americans are Jewish, so there's no will to try to check the unending Israeli aggression! I think religion has a lot to answer for. Whilst it appears to give some people a comfort and a reason it gives many more people a feeling of superiority and a moral high ground over those who don't share their particular brand of religion. If the pearly gates exist and I were God I'd be kicking any religious zealots straight downstairs. Time for them to reflect on their lives wasted expounding religion to the vulnerable rather than living their own life in a civilised way, which after all is what religion's purpose is and should be, a general code of conduct which helps society function harmoniously. Blimey, That was a top rant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSPUK Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 10 out of 10 Best yet - dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scobydog Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Here is an idea, get Sweden to sign an international agreement that they will not extradite him to usa, then question him at the swedish embassy with his lawyers present. At the moment he is only wanted for questioning, no charges have been brought. If the accusations are proven then face the music if not proven walk away a free man. As has been said previously Ecuador is a very strange bed partner for someone who is supposedly all for freedom of speech. With anti government activists going missing, stifling free speech laws and a country which also barely recognises rape as an offence. Also as a side note swedish prisons are pretty lax compared with most others in europe, conjugal visits, cushy cells and if you have no partner you are allowed 1 visit per month from a paid escort, nudge nudge wink wink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 the US never go out with the intention of killing as many civilians as possible. the japanese may not agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Scobydog - not a bad idea, about him being questioned at the Embassy. It might be helpful or it might not, but is one possible way of progressing the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 His lawyers have continually asked for assurance that Sweden will not extradite him. Sweden and the US have kept shtum. They are not going to agree to something that is completely counter to their intentions and motives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) He has being trough the Court in the UK regards extradition he has now skipped bail. If it was anyone else he would be in jail awaiting extradition why should he be treated differently than anyone else. (Question him in the embassy guarantee him that he should not be extracted to America why should they. ) Ball**s **** him let him stay in the embassy if he wants. If he comes out arrest him send him to Sweden no guarantees. Edited August 23, 2012 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxtav Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 If he gets extradited or not is immaterial at the moment as he has skipped bail and should be treated the same as any other person who does that. If you are innocent and are on bail while awaiting trial you do what the bail conditions say if you don't you have broken UK law and should be dealt with as such. In my opinion that should take precedence over the extradition. He is just using this situation as a grandstand for him to preach his ideas (I'm not swayed either way as to him being right or wrong). As far as I am concerned he has broken UK law by breaching his bail and should be arrested and tried for that and take the consequences of his actions. What will we have next everyone accused of a crime either here or abroad making their way to the nearest embassy to seek asylum to avoid justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Whilst i'm not a fan of Assange on a personal level, i believe in a lot of his cause. The whole sex offender case reeks of classic intelligence smear campaign, even if he is guilty, i believe it wrong for the US to extradition him. Some interesting reading here... http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/02/eight-big-problems-with-the-case-against-assange-must-read-by-naomi-wolf/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codeye Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 This whole political saga has had only one outcome so far as to stick two fingers up at the british from the south americans states rounding on the british over the falklands the ecuadorians dont give a hoot about freedom of speech just look at their records on human rights and freedom of speech it speaks for itself as far as assange is concerned he is just a pawn in the south americans annoying the brits Is assange guilty in my opinion i doubt it but as the saying goes dont stir the hornets nest or your likely to get stung so the predicament he is in is partly down to his own making Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry31 Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Just call me a cynic but equador is currently negotiating with the USA for redevelopment of its oil fields which account for 56% of its total income. How does polical pawn sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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