Should legal limit Airguns be licensed?

[Bazooka Joe]

Just a matter of time before they'll have to be, clock's ticking,

 

As soon as a politicians sibling get's shot with one it'll be wrote in stone,

 

BJ.

[monkeybob]

NO!

It would never work far to many air guns out there already. Why do you feel the need to license everything? Before ya know it you'll need a license to ******* breath. Its madness! And I suppose with the license a fee would be introduced, another tax on the already law abiding citizen.

I tell ya whats a better idea. License prospective parents. Make them take a test before they have children to see if they are intelligent enough to bring them up. Now that would stop 99% of all the imbicile children getting hold of airguns and causing us decent law abiding airgunners problems

[STOCKY A391]

I think a seperate licensing system should be used for non FAC air weapons.

It would operate exactly like the Shotgun Certificate, ie. without the extreme controls of the FAC.

 

Age requirements etc., would be the same as the SGC.

 

Perhaps in the future, it could be incorporated in a general/non FAC gun licence.

 

I think that this is the way to go .

[sako751sg]

Absolutely not.Another nail in the shooting mans coffin.

Edited March 30, 2010 by sako751sg

[Bombadil]

A few of the people who voted 'yes' are making comments about how it is not the serious offender who uses the air rifle for crime. So lets say we are dealing only with petty crime - yes it is a shame cats get shot, and it's terrible car windows may be smashed but let's be realist about this, crime happens. People are not criminals because the opportunity is there, it is a societal problem. It is how people are raised and what options they have in life, the community they know. People will

brick that car window, or use their dog to get that cat.

 

Banning air rifles isn't going to stop crime it will simply change it. Such legislation would essentially be legal shooters getting it in the kneck by antis and the misinformed wrongly labeling problems in Britains Social structure as availability of air rifles.

 

I also believe that such a license would damage the sport. Ofcourse a law abiding person with good intention can obtain an FAC or SGC, however the process can be daunting. With such legislation, in order to try out the sport it will be £50 (with current prices) for the license, £110 aprx for a new cabinet and the money for the air rifle. You then have a police interview and depending on the legislation maybe a land check. People who are interested in the sport and wish to develop there curiosity will undoubtedly be put off by this. Especially the young lad who only has his paper round money and parents suffering from the recession.

 

And how would good reason for this come into play? Would cracking cans in the garden be sufficient? If so presumably anyone could get hold of one except those with previous convictions - good you say? Well why not simply have that as a requirement for purchasing instead? Even so, as stated by many people, the serious criminal is not going to use an air rifle so what is this achieving.

 

The issue we are dealing with is not air-rifle crime but anti-social behaviour. The causes of which are vast, and rooted in the very structure of society. Far to broad to be covered in there entirety in one thread alone. But any party which persecutes a minority (the shooting community) will certainly win more votes then lost by the majority (the antis combined with those who think guns are weapons alone) so i will not be suprised to see such legislation pass. When the anti-social behaviour continues what will go then i wonder?

 

I can see why many people on this forum are in favour of the license, as a community of people who use potentially lethal weapons as a part of our past time, it is only logical that we strive to make safety and the potential of missuse an absolute minimum. But it's my personal opinion that we need to step back and see what this license would realistically achieve.

[Kent Militia]

What the licence would achieve is exactly what you say, it would increase bureaucracy for law abiding citizens while not doing anything to tackle crime or social behaviour. Come on which serious criminal would use an air rifle when they can get an uzi from the black market.

[Alanl50]

NO!

It would never work far to many air guns out there already. Why do you feel the need to license everything? Before ya know it you'll need a license to ******* breath. Its madness! And I suppose with the license a fee would be introduced, another tax on the already law abiding citizen.

I tell ya whats a better idea. License prospective parents. Make them take a test before they have children to see if they are intelligent enough to bring them up. Now that would stop 99% of all the imbicile children getting hold of airguns and causing us decent law abiding airgunners problems

I AGREE WITH YOU

 

I would add people who choose not to have kids WOULD not have to pay for those that DO and means tested if you cant afford kids you cant have them. why should the state pick up the bill.

 

We are not talking about the serious criminal but the mindless idiots /morons that think that fireing airguns at Firemen, Ambulance men, Mothers and Children, livestock and house pets.

 

We lost our Semi auto rifles 88 we lost our hand guns 97 and the Air cartridge became a FIREARM it would work

one stroke of a pen! and anyone found to be in possesion, we know the rest from the past.

Alan

Edited March 31, 2010 by Alanl50

[Shuck.]

Typed up an incredibly long in depth description on why it would be a bad idea but accidentally hit 'esc' and lost it all

 

If airguns were banned when I was young I'd never have gotten into shooting sports.

 

This law won't do us as shooters ANY FAVOURS AT ALL

[alexr]

I voted yes.

I can see good arguments for both sides here And I would regret not being able to cull the magpies and squirrels in my garden, perhaps not as much as the local song bird population would regret the lack of culling of magpies. But I can also see that there are advantages. There was a thread on here about the most stupid thing you had ever done with an air rifle. It seems at some stage all of us have done something daft with one, and in the 70's and 80's you were more likely to get a cuff round the ear than a visit from the armed response unit, but times have changed. Most of use have SGC, FAC or both and for us it would make little difference. It would discourage the chav, and the nature of air guns would mean that they would require repair and the unlicensed guns would over a period of 5 to 10 years become useless. Why would the criminal want an air gun anyway. They can get the real thing around here with little difficulty.

[Kent Militia]

"Why would the criminal want an air gun anyway. They can get the real thing around here with little difficulty. "

 

So why licence it then if you yourself admitted that a serious criminal is not likely going to use an airgun in a crime.

[Shuck.]

I reckon if air guns were licenced 50 years ago, not many of us without land would have got into shooting at all.

[fortune82]

I voted yes.

Licensing would prevent the local chav bying them to break windows and shoot cats etc. If he already has one and gets caught with it without a license he is screwed. At the moment if plod comes knocking and he says he uses the air rifle for shooting tin cans in the back garden the police can do nothing unless they can prove he has used it illegally. It would also stop dodgy shops selling them. Theres a shop round here that sells all sorts of ****, crossbows, swords, air rifles etc to anyone.

 

You could just put airguns on a SGC up to say 30 ftlb then FAC above that.

It would be interesting to know how many of us started shooting via air guns and how many via .410's etc.

[HDAV]

Slightly off topic but "what is an Air gun?" would this include paintball and airsoft? I can't see a beneficial system being easy anything similar to SGC applications is likely to cause huge problems and costs. Illegal use of any weapon is an issue but as we cant control cars and keep them in licensed hands and stop drink driving, speeding, road rage, theft etc or people using illegal (none road legal) bikes and quads on the road and off road without permission I cant see it being feasible. I guess the same was thought of the original SGC and FAC implementation.

 

But amending the SGC to be tougher and adding current SGC style rules for airguns at 12ft/lbs seems crazy I know its been said before but what next a licence for cricket balls? sticks? limits on buy and store for bricks? any projectile can be dangerous but so can cutlery, packaging and and aggregate. I think its people that need licensing rather than items!

 

I would like to see airguns of reasonable power 20-30ft/lbs be none FAC perhaps a lower class like SGC and have some .22 in a lower class. it seems to me the more stuff that gets banned the worse things get. in the early 20th century very little was banned even until the late 20's and 30's. We went to war with china to maintain our opium supply in the mid 19th century...

 

rant over....

[Kent Militia]

I think its people that need licensing rather than items!

 

I think it's peopel who need common sense and personal responsibility than licencing or banning. I might be old fashioned in this "new and dangerous world" but I cannot say I support denying any gun/air rifle to someone who hasn't broken the law, irrespective of whether I think they are a "chav" or have a bad fashion sense.

[alexr]

"Why would the criminal want an air gun anyway. They can get the real thing around here with little difficulty. "

 

So why licence it then if you yourself admitted that a serious criminal is not likely going to use an airgun in a crime.

 

True, but there is a big difference between taking potshots at windows and holding up a sub post office. I suspect the truth of the matter is that the government want us to lock them away and the only way they can force us to do that is by licensing them.

[Shuck.]

So do you lot who insist on restricting air rifles, are they supposed to be locked up in a firearm cabinet as well?

[Kent Militia]

Apparently some on here do agree with that stance. Yes.

[Shuck.]

so even after the appropriate certification is acquired, if you don't have room in your cabinet, you'll have to go out your way to bolt another safe on the wall? (I remember a poll says most SGC holders in the UK have 1-3 shotguns in a 3 gun cabinet).

 

Not all of us have room for another safe and I bet most of us wouldn't be able to legally store our guns if they include any old air weapons.. are you counting CO2 guns with this too? Do you expect us to buy pistol safes as well?

[Shuck.]

accident please delete

Edited March 31, 2010 by Shuck.

[alexr]

I am not playing the bad man here. but there has to be a reason why they want to license them. The criminal thing is only a small part of it. The vast majority of owners are responsible people, and safe storage of a weapon of any kind is not only a responsible thing to do but also a reasonable request. There have been a number of incidents recently that would not have happened if the airgun had been stored in a locked cabinet. Public safety is endangered by the existence of the weapon as far as the government and the police are concerned, just see what happens if you wave one around in the town centre. Not that I am seriously suggesting you do, but think about it. This may not be a view I agree with personally, but it is still a very persuasive argument. I have a cabinet, I lock my airguns up. its not an unreasonable thing to do. And there is always somewhere left , some wall somewhere, to stick a new cabinet, isn't there.

Edited March 31, 2010 by alexr

[Kent Militia]

I think this might be more important of people with kids or people living and lodging with others but in my house it's just me and my mum who live, we are both responsible adults and I don't see a reason to lock-up my airguns.

[aaron airgunner]

no i think. this would mean that no one would have sub 12 ftib air rifles anymore (apart from for delicate situaitions like barns and caravan parks) because as soon as you get an fac they would crank up there airguns power to 30ftib and sub 12ftib airguns would fall out the market. also, say the licencing system would treat a .17 hmr the same as an air rifle, this would mean that with a an air rifle you would not be aloud to shoot a woody/squizzer out of a tree because in the eyes of the law an air rifle would be seen as a firearm. it would be stupid to shoot a .17 hmr with no soild backstop because those bullets will travel for miles. with enough land behind, shooting something out of a tree with sub 12ftib air rifle is perfectly fine.

[Shuck.]

there has to be a reason why they want to licence them

to make the public feel safer? honestly the only people I can think of that would want this are the 'mothers against guns' and people who've lost friends and family against illegal/illegally owned firearms.

 

If you have an air weapon in your home and you have small children, then it should be out of reach, no question. If they can't reach it they can't harm themselves/anyone else with it.. knives are in reach of inquisitive children but aren't locked up in secure cabinets are they?

The difference in this case between a gun and a knife is education.

You should be teaching weapon safety to your kids as early as you can, kids don't play with knives because they know the dangers and they know they will get in a lot of trouble if they get caught, teach the same about guns and you have the same level of respect for the gun as you do the knife.

 

I think most airgun accidents can be avoided by dealers using discression and being sensible about who they sell air weapons too, a few times I've witnessed an absolutely blatantly irresponsible acting adult walk into a shop and walk out with an air rifle.

[alexr]

to make the public feel safer? honestly the only people I can think of that would want this are the 'mothers against guns' and people who've lost friends and family against illegal/illegally owned firearms.

 

Unfortunately these are politically connected people, they talk with one voice and the general public who do not shoot and have no interest in these thing think that the arguments are reasonable. Look we all know that banning handguns in the UK has made no difference to gun related deaths. But the political argument was that banning them would reduce the number of gun crimes. its flawed logic, but most people just shrug and assume its right , after all why would the government lie about that ? the same will hold true here. As shooters we have no united voice. Our representative bodies all have their own axes to grind and no one has the money to mount a hearts and minds campaign to change Jo Publics views.

[HDAV]

I think most airgun accidents can be avoided by dealers using discression and being sensible about who they sell air weapons too, a few times I've witnessed an absolutely blatantly irresponsible acting adult walk into a shop and walk out with an air rifle.

 

I recently went into a local RFD one in a city centre where the chap behind the counter was chatting with 2 youngish males who seemed to be of foreign origin (speaking to each other in another language) about buying an air rifle, I did wonder what they intended to with it but decided it was none of my business and was legal and above board, they left saying they were off to a cash point to get the money, i mooched around and left, then stopped off at an army surplus type shop that sells clothing and air guns only to see the same 2 chaps buying a cheap Chinese CO2 gun rather than the nice springer they had been looking at over the road (the chap was telling them they had to buy £10 slip as it was "THE LAW" i can only assume they had no box for the gun!)

 

I did think at this point should a post office type name address photo charge £25 licence be needed. They may have been trying to control some vermin, do a bit of target practice, or been planning a massacre. I have no idea which, if it was A or B they have an OK chance and little risk to the public. if it was C their chances are much lower of success and i doubt it! I am going to watch out for pellets in the next kebab i buy when ******........

 

I still think Air soft and paintball guns should be included in any licence.