mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 i was out decoying pigeons last sunday on cut barley. i was using kent velocity hv pigeon in the form of a 29grm #6 second time using these cartridges. so the birds start coming in and i start shooting, two 15 20 yarders come in so bang bang and they drop. couple of fairly high birds say 30 /40ft came over and bang bang nearly plucked the pair of them feathers every where from a direct hit. but the kept going. so i thought thats odd they should be dead in the air. every single bird over the 25yard mark laughed at my efforts. id say im a fairly good shot and usualy drop birds consistantly at 40yds with my usual cartridge. i then went home and got my eley hi flyers and guess what every bird shot was stone dead before it hit the deck. im no cartridge expert but those kents are ********. not worth the case ther loaded in imop. carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 what were the chokes and pattern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tad-blody Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Is there a difference in velocity between the two cartridges as in my experience big puffs of feathers at range indicate the a**e end being hit. What I'm getting at is that the kent might need a tad more lead which if you have confidence in a cartridge happens naturally but as confidence diminishes your swing goes to pot. P.s I'm guessing shot was same size and payload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 half and half choke good patern in both barrels and it was chest feathers. iv been shooting pigeons a few years now and they were definately hit in the centre of the chest small feathers came of both. definately not tail end. the eleys are a 30grm no 5. not sure on velocity. at the local clay ground few lads i spoke to have already taken there kent hv pigeon back to the shop before i spoke to them and had them changed. for the same reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Is there a difference in velocity between the two cartridges as in my experience big puffs of feathers at range indicate the a**e end being hit. What I'm getting at is that the kent might need a tad more lead which if you have confidence in a cartridge happens naturally but as confidence diminishes your swing goes to pot. P.s I'm guessing shot was same size and payload. the MV ist going to make that much difference. most pigeon loads are at 1300fps-1400fps as standard any faster and it csts too much, any slower and they dont "bang" right. ps, homeload a 28gram with vectan AS to the "world cup" standard in a 6.. and you are comparing a game load to a pigeon load, apples and teapots, totally different. Edited September 6, 2012 by cookoff013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 amount of lead will be irrelevant.The plucked look means hit edge of chest where clouds of feathers come off.Have not shot these particular cartridges but as they are Gamebore would expect them to be good.Clearly you have now got it in your head they are no good so no doubt won't be on your shopping list again! I would bet though on another day they would work fine for you.Although once you have it in mind they won't work they probably won't!! Clearly you and Hi-flyers work so there's your answer.As an aside I often find hide shooting gets better as the day goes on,you may not have been as smooth early on or like me you ''tried too hard''. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 i did give more and less lead as you say but without success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I don't want to start the BIG DEBATE off, but please try 28g 7.5 Fiochi cartridges for pigeons. I'm a recent convert to this size/weight cartridge after being very sceptical. These cartridges hit hard at good ranges. If you haven't tried them, just get a box or two to see for yourself. Cos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 i think the doubt got the better of me toward the end. im glad i only got 250 and not a thousand. its miffed me how they didnt drop birds that i thought id clattered a good en. i bought them thinking they should be good as ther gamebore but the doubt is there now and doubt i could get confidence back to use them, as i like things deas instantly when i shoot them. who knows maybe it was just me. i flattened 4 nice big crows with em on same day. maybe i have been shooting crows to long lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I don't want to start the BIG DEBATE off, but please try 28g 7.5 Fiochi cartridges for pigeons. I'm a recent convert to this size/weight cartridge after being very sceptical. These cartridges hit hard at good ranges. If you haven't tried them, just get a box or two to see for yourself. Cos very wierd lol. a bloke at my local gun shop has just recomended i try these ha ha. must be sumet about them thats good!! he says there a good fast cartridge and not to let the size put me off. not sure what to do as i usualy shoot with #5s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 i think the doubt got the better of me toward the end. im glad i only got 250 and not a thousand. its miffed me how they didnt drop birds that i thought id clattered a good en. i bought them thinking they should be good as ther gamebore but the doubt is there now and doubt i could get confidence back to use them, as i like things deas instantly when i shoot them. who knows maybe it was just me. i flattened 4 nice big crows with em on same day. maybe i have been shooting crows to long lol Sorry, it wasn't the cartridges, it was you. If i shoot at something that i know is in range (with any cartridge) and it doesn't come down, i blame myself. I don't want to start the BIG DEBATE off, but please try 28g 7.5 Fiochi cartridges for pigeons. I'm a recent convert to this size/weight cartridge after being very sceptical. These cartridges hit hard at good ranges. If you haven't tried them, just get a box or two to see for yourself. Cos I noticed in the new BASC mag that even renowned pigeon man Will Garfitt regards 7.5 shot on pigeon as a good size to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 could it be because i have decoyed crows the last few months. and not used to the speed and agillity of the woody. the hv pigeons shot well on the crows the first time i tried them. but seemed feckless on the pigeon witch i clearly had hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CypriotHunter Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 you are comparing game load with pigeon load ... obvs game loads are better in everyways ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 very wierd lol. a bloke at my local gun shop has just recomended i try these ha ha. must be sumet about them thats good!! he says there a good fast cartridge and not to let the size put me off. not sure what to do as i usualy shoot with #5s Just take a box or two and try them. Honestly, I've had maybe 10 outings with them, in the back of my mind I'm still thinking about the size/weight, but we've shot a few hundred pigeons with them and a fair few blacks, and after every outing I'm singing their praises. My gun shop sells them at £37.50/250 for the Top One and £42.50 for the FBLU's, so excellent price as well. Cos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 not to sound stupid but why are they better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Just take a box or two and try them. Honestly, I've had maybe 10 outings with them, in the back of my mind I'm still thinking about the size/weight, but we've shot a few hundred pigeons with them and a fair few blacks, and after every outing I'm singing their praises. My gun shop sells them at £37.50/250 for the Top One and £42.50 for the FBLU's, so excellent price as well. Cos im going to try them as my eley high flyers cost me £60 a slab nearly double the fiochi. what have i got to loose. what choke are you putting them through? just wondering if you tighten up with the smaller shot to get a better kill cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I don't want to start the BIG DEBATE off, but please try 28g 7.5 Fiochi cartridges for pigeons. I'm a recent convert to this size/weight cartridge after being very sceptical. These cartridges hit hard at good ranges. If you haven't tried them, just get a box or two to see for yourself. Cos Are these Euro size 7.5, which I think means UK size 6.5 ? That might account for your good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Sorry, it wasn't the cartridges, it was you. If i shoot at something that i know is in range (with any cartridge) and it doesn't come down, i blame myself. I noticed in the new BASC mag that even renowned pigeon man Will Garfitt regards 7.5 shot on pigeon as a good size to use. I saw his comments and he also said that there is no need to use heavier loads. Who am I to argue, but been there got the tee-shirt. For me 32g of Eley 6.5 shot will kill more consistently and cleanly than any 7.5 clay loads i've ever tried. Just my opinion. There are certain days when you need extra clout from a shell. I shoot a lot of 20 bore 28g 6's and 80% of the time it all works dandy. There are days when you need more hammer and reach. Confidence in what you are stuffing in your barrels is a lot of it, make your own minds up. Just to get a point across our very own George Digweed sponsors the Gambore Pigeon Extreme which is an utterly awesome cartridge. It's 34g of No 5. Try them, you won't get too many nicked birds I can tell you. So Will Garfitt is out of quilter with George Digweed? Interesting? Edited September 6, 2012 by Whitebridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Are these Euro size 7.5, which I think means UK size 6.5 ? That might account for your good results. Euro, equivilant to an English 7 is my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 As was said by Whitebridges, confidence is the key thing. If i miss a few with my normal cartridge i tell myself to sort myself out, if i miss with a different cartridge i automatically doubt the cartridge! Even though in reality most cartridges are of a decent enough quality for it to make very little if any difference in the field. I now stick to set cartridges for every aspect of my shooting and then there is one less thing to doubt when it all goes a bit off. Hats off to people who can chop and change with no worrys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Euro shot size's are one size smaller than ours. So an EU size 6 is a UK size 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I saw his comments and he also said that there is no need to use heavier loads. Who am I to argue, but been there got the tee-shirt. For me 32g of Eley 6.5 shot will kill more consistently and cleanly than any 7.5 clay loads i've ever tried. Just my opinion. There are certain days when you need extra clout from a shell. I shoot a lot of 20 bore 28g 6's and 80% of the time it all works dandy. There are days when you need more hammer and reach. Confidence in what you are stuffing in your barrels is a lot of it, make your own minds up. Just to get a point across our very own George Digweed sponsors the Gambore Pigeon Extreme which is an utterly awesome cartridge. It's 34g of No 5. Try them, you won't get too many nicked birds I can tell you. So Will Garfitt is out of quilter with George Digweed? Interesting? and there is me thinking skill is the key thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Euro shot size's are one size smaller than ours. So an EU size 6 is a UK size 5. I stand corrected then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Sorry, it wasn't the cartridges, it was you. If i shoot at something that i know is in range (with any cartridge) and it doesn't come down, i blame myself. maybe so but the #5s sorted the job out with clean accurate kills, maybe the cartridges dont suit my style of shooting, who knows. im learning as i go along with cartridges. and im willing to listen to what you all have to say. you could well be right that it was me! but i cant see how using a different cartridge could cause me to miss. i say cause me to miss because as soon as i changed ammo i was on form again I noticed in the new BASC mag that even renowned pigeon man Will Garfitt regards 7.5 shot on pigeon as a good size to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 thanks for all replies guys carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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