jam1e Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Hi folks, Just to put you in the picture. I'm a newbie when it comes to reloading, but did loads of research before i started. As i don't need to make hundreds of rounds at a time i bought the Lee Challenger 50th Aniversary kit. Which overall i'm very happy with. Well, almost!....... Now comes the BUT. I can't get the scales to work properly. I zero them with the little powder pan attached. And after abit of fine adjustment on the wheel they zero perfectly! I then set them to the amount i want, 28 grains in my case. I then set up the powder hopper and dropped a load into the pan. I then put them back on the scale and they're miles out! I've been over the instructions on the scale and i'm sure i've set it up right. Then i did the same with the powder hopper. Just to add that i put a full hopper of powder through the powder measure before i set it up to the amount i needed. I even dropped 5 loads before using the pan to make sure it was consistantly dropping 1.87cc. I thought maybe my powder dropper wasn't right so i weighed 5 dropped loads with my cheapo digital scale. And although not 100% accurate it was very near the amount i needed. I'd appreciate any constructive help or advice you folks could give me.... Thanks Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 ignore the thrower measure a load on the digital scales then check the lee ones, you've either got them set up wrong or zeroed wrong if I am getting the gist of your problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 powder throwers are just not that accurate. It usual to throw an undercharge then top it up with the trickler. Beam scales are effected by level changes and also interfearance from things like strip lights. Digital scales are a nightmare for interfearance but good for speed and less tight tollenances. As a side note check balance scales are 100% clean in the pivot points etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted November 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) Ok. I just zero'd them again. I did the following. I put the base of the scale on a flat level marble base. I then slid the grain window to zero, and made sure there was a line above in the grain poise zero. Then i put the ball poise in the zero slot, and then the beam blade in the base slot. After checking all the above again i then added the pan and tweaked the zero adjuster until the beam pointer lined up exactly with the zero indicator. I pushed the beam pointer down several times and it zeroed everytime. I turned my digital scales on and I set them to grains. I then put a small "plastic pill cup" onto my digital scales, and zeroed the scales. I then added exactly 50 grains of Hodgdon BL-C 2 to the pill cup. I then took the cup off the digi scales and put them back again to confirm it was 50 grains. I then did the same again 5 times to be totally sure it was 50 grains. Which it was every time. I then emptied every grain into the pan and put the pan on the Lee scales and allowed it to settle. However, the beam pointer was around 10mm below the zero indicator. As though there wasn't enough powder in the pan. I gently moved the beam pointer to the zero indicator and let go. Again the beam pointer went back down to 10mm again. Thats it. So what am i doing wrong!!? So frustrating!! Edited November 1, 2012 by jam1e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 you need a check weight so you know which is wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixhills 69 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 go to shotgunreloading.co.uk click on case/misc and look at the Hornady GS-1500 they are great scales i have been using them for some time and are acurate to .1 gr I use my powder thrower to give me around 23 to 23.5gr and then trickle in the last bit to get 24gr i test 1 in ever 10 charges on a pair of RCBS 501 beam scales but never have a problem. Lee scales (file 13 them) thats all they are worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) Id say you have the scales set wrong in someway, they are fiddly little bustards and they did my head in but they did seem pretty consistant. Make sure they are pivoted correctly,make sure they are on a level flat surface. If not flat the pointer end of the beam may rub on the base somewhere. Check all this,and you have zeroed with pans correctly located. So now its reading zero, select the weight you require on the sliding thing, then add yr powder until the needle is just under the reading mark. Then trickle a litte more powder in until you have pointer and reading mark lined up. If in doupt use a check weight but these little scales are not usually dangerous and even if they measure a load very slightly out with a check weight it won't matter once you have found an accurate load as they will be consistant within themselves. Saying all that I chucked mine because they were so fiddly and invested in RCBS, great scales Edited November 1, 2012 by Redgum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted November 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Thanks for the comments folks. I'm ****** off as i shouldn't have to sling them, they should be fit for purpose! I've do alot of tests with different weights. Cross referencing with my little digital scales, and it's always the same. The Lee scales are 1.5 to 1.6 grains out. I think i'll take them back to the store where i bought the box set from and hopefully replace them and try again?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Try weighing a 1 p piece on the digi scales it should be 3.56 gram or 54.939 grains. Then try the beam scales see if there out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) I haven't had any issues with my Lee scales at all, i've heard people curse at the setting up but not the accuracy. Firstly I zero'd them on flat piece of thick glass by placing the ball to 0 and the grain poise on 0. To have a correct 0 you will have a white line on 9, the middle white line on 0 then the third on 1. Check that the arm is correctly balanced on the razor edge. Then set your load up, you measure the .1 with the middle white line over the .1 that you want. It will take hardly any powder to move the scale 10mm and I would trust the balance beam over a digital scales everytime. Edited November 1, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted November 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 "Amazed" I've weighed a 1 pence coin on my digi scales and it weighed 54 grains and 3.6 grams. They don't go any further down than that. I haven't got time to tally them with the balance beam tonight, so will do tomorrow... Livefast, I got the bit with the ball and grain part but no idea what you mean when it comes to the tenths of grains. So, if for example i was measuring out 25.5 grains. The ball would be obviously on the 2, the "grains" number would be on 5. And to achieve the .5 of a grain, i would have a line in the zero, a line in the 9 and also a line in the 5 for the .5 of a grain Apologies if i sound really thick folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 TRY THIS Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted November 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUAiekOEOg0 TRY THIS Deershooter Thanks. My scales must be wrong as in the clip the penny weighs 48.8 grains. But according to my scales the penny weighs 54.7 grains! I've gone over and over the instructions, I'm 100% sure i'm zeroing them right. I've also checked the scale isn't binding anywhere and changed to several flat level surfaces and the readings are the same??? But i've also noticed the scale won't hold it's zero. If i get it zero'd perfectly then gently put a little bit of pressure on the pan it goes up and down slowly, but doesn't return to zero and needs balancing again! I'll try taking them back to Bromgrove Shooting Supplies today to see what they say..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Is your penny steel or copper they make both steel ones are plated and will be lighter Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted November 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Is your penny steel or copper they make both steel ones are plated and will be lighter Deershooter I never knew that! No wonder they were different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) To weigh 25.5 grains you would have the metal ball on the 20, the grain poise on 5 and on the tenths of a grain you would have a line on the 4, a line on the 5 and a line on the 6. You always measure the tenths of a grain on the middle white line. I'll try and take a pic to demostrate. 25.5g with ball set at 20 Zero'd correctly with the middle white line below the zero Edited November 2, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Jamie, I would put money that your Lee scales are CORRECT and your digi ones are wrong. - as has been said above a penny weighs 54.939gr if you are getting 54gr - you are not reading them accurate enough - you need someone to show you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I have weighed a few pennies and deer shooter is quite rite they do vary from 53 to 55 grain even my old plastic lyman scales read the Weight fine not as fussy and useful for rough loads not near the max. I would practice weighing different coins the weights are available from the mints website and convert them to grains. Safer than powder anyway ow and if you have a spirit level check your work top it won't take much to throw you off. Correct it with card under your weighing surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Are we all into checking powder scales with old tatty coins now I must get with the trend I was using the varified weights that came with them,and double checking with a 55 grn bullet saved and kept seperate from all others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 No Dougy - most of us have decent check weights - but Jam1e is struggling to get to grips with reloading, now it has been suggested he seeks help from someone local - but that seems to be not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Its why I never get why people are pushed into reloading as soon as they apply for a centerfire on here. You are far better off shooting factory for a while until someone shows you the ropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 and its economically better as you harvest the brass, i have seen some seriously dogey homeloads from beginers who were convinced they were correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 There are courses available on basic reloading And yes i know how much they are, and i also know how much the material things are like a rifle,possible scope and then we look at the cost of the none replaceable items, like if your lucky, fingers,hands, your sight, all of which could be damaged beyond repair for a simple mistake whilst --practising reloading, without first someone experienced showing you the do's and donts. So the actual cost of the course in comparison is not that expensive really is it. Its a shame nobody is at hand to help local though. Maybe it may be worth Jamie traveling a little distance for some one on one tuition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 I started reloading by reading books and watching hours of footage on youtube but I am in no doubt that I have just only scratched the surface. I only have the basic kit and I take my time, damaging parts of my body is not something I want to achieve by reloading. I will carry on learning but for now I am happy with my basic kit and producing plinking rounds, I think of it rather like learning to crawl first rather than walk. I have found my Lee scale bang on when mounted on a thick sheet of glass and the downloaded .223 plinking rounds have performed as indicated and grouped well when I tried a box of 20 yesterday. There are loads of video's to set up Lee scales on Youtube or Jamie could get a local member to help. I guess you have got to have confidence that your scale is weighing correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie g Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 dont forget lads coins get dirty and that would hold extra weight. i would take the lee onces back and get a rcbs 505 scale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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