lewis2012 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Hi all been up local permission to try and sort out my scopes a little get them zerod properly. So I set my targets at aroun 80 - 95 yds ( long strides ). Set everything up got a decent position, gun on bi-pod etc and the groups were just random, there was a little wind but hardly nothing blowing from my left hand side towards my right. But yet placed a coca cola 500ml bottle about 5yds rurther with only half the bottle showing and hit it straight away, also hitting bottle tops at 30yds ( I knw its able to do this at 100 yds ) the reson why I'm asking is in relitively new to rimfire shooting but have had airguns etc all my life, I knw there's a bit difference but just to say I don't think its my positioning. The Cz452 is around 2months old ( I had it from new ) and has fired 200 rounds. Any help would be great thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
got_the_eye_in Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Have you just changed to different bullets or have you just cleaned the barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 wind??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2012 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Possibly wind cos still usuing the same 17gr red tip hornady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 have you cleaned since the last outing?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2012 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 No mate hasn't been cleaned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Out of interest I know its not on your profile list but have you got a moderator on and if you have what make??? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2012 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 I have a sak moderator onit mate but today I'd taken it off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Looks like the barrel is touching the stock. This will throw a random pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2012 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Looks like the barrel is touching the stock. This will throw a random pattern. I hope not :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 I hope not :( Easy fix, Just take stock off sand down channel stick a bit of gun oil on and replace stock...job done. When i say gun oil i mean gun stock oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2012 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Thing is its brand new, how will I knw if its touching? Run paper along the underside of barrell and stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) I have a sak moderator onit mate but today I'd taken it off Ok mine was a bit erratic when I bought mine new in August, I have the CZ452 American 16" barrel with a Scirocco moderator not the best mod I know but it works, I had to shoot it then clean it shoot then clean it and I continued this for about 250 shots, its bang on now every time, 20 - 30 shots then I would clean it. When I take it out now does'nt matter how many rounds I always clean it, one of the farmers had the same prob with his browning Hmr he has gone throught the same process as I did and again its spot on Good luck Alan NB Ive shot about 400 rounds through mine now Edited December 23, 2012 by Alanl50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) I'd start at 40 yds. A 100 yd zero will also be on at 40 so start there. You should get very tight cloverleaf groups at that range. Start with a clean barrel and various brands of ammo. Stick with the best one. If your stock is touching the barrel do as Blackbart says. Make sure its still floating clear on the bipod. If you still can't get decent groups and removing the mod makes no difference then suspect scope or mounting issues. Is it brand new? You're not shooting with an oiled barrel are you? Edited December 23, 2012 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2012 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Its a new gun mate I've had it 1 month from new and haven't fired more than 200rounds, its more or less on zero but took it out to tweek it 2day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) You do have to run them in, I thought it was bull shine when I was told but nope it worked, Alan Edited December 23, 2012 by Alanl50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Mine goes off every 50 or so shots,clean of the barrel and then two fouling shots and it is back on target,if you zero with the mod on then i would shoot with it on,keeps the gun in balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 mine does it too from time to time, after cleaning i just zero it every time before i take any live quarry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2012 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Whats best way to clean? Bore snake through barrel isit? I was told not to clean alot. Once barrell has been cleaned will i need to re zero it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bolt94 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 I know you said you can hit things at closer range but one thing I learnt when shooting a .308cf. It may not be the case but be aware of it: You may thing your looking down the scope but as you pull the trigger you could be lifting your head away to "see" where it hits (not that you will have much joy) and in the process are pulling the gun slightly off target. Just something which has always stuck with me since I was told about how that can affect some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb79 Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Those groups look quite extreme, but could it also be a parallax issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Whats best way to clean? Bore snake through barrel isit? I was told not to clean alot. Once barrell has been cleaned will i need to re zero it? You'll get a range of opinions with this one but mine has to be cleaned every 100 rounds. It'll comfortably shoot half inch groups at 100 yds but opens up to two inches if I don't clean it. The HMR is a filthy cartridge and I've found the fastest cleaner is Forrest bore foam. Fill the bore, stand the rifle up for 15 minutes then pull a brass or nylon brush through a few times (chamber to muzzle) to scrub out the muck, then run patches through till they come clean. Really squeaky clean, no black rifling marks. This takes 10 minutes and a dozen patches with mine. I then finish with a clean bore snake to make sure there is no trace of oil of cleaning fluid left in the bore. Some people run a patch with meths through to do the same thing. I usually find the zero is unchanged and it shoots good groups straight away. Some people just run a bore snake through after each use, some haven't touched theirs for a thousand rounds. I don't doubt anyone's word but there's no way I'd get away with that with mine. Set zero with a clean bore and re-zero with a clean bore, is my rule with all my rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2012 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 You'll get a range of opinions with this one but mine has to be cleaned every 100 rounds. It'll comfortably shoot half inch groups at 100 yds but opens up to two inches if I don't clean it. The HMR is a filthy cartridge and I've found the fastest cleaner is Forrest bore foam. Fill the bore, stand the rifle up for 15 minutes then pull a brass or nylon brush through a few times (chamber to muzzle) to scrub out the muck, then run patches through till they come clean. Really squeaky clean, no black rifling marks. This takes 10 minutes and a dozen patches with mine. I then finish with a clean bore snake to make sure there is no trace of oil of cleaning fluid left in the bore. Some people run a patch with meths through to do the same thing. I usually find the zero is unchanged and it shoots good groups straight away. Some people just run a bore snake through after each use, some haven't touched theirs for a thousand rounds. I don't doubt anyone's word but there's no way I'd get away with that with mine. Set zero with a clean bore and re-zero with a clean bore, is my rule with all my rifles. Could that be the problem with mine? I haven't cleaned inside the barrel since I had it a few months back and have put over 200 rounds through it. Would this cause the random groupings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Could that be the problem with mine? I haven't cleaned inside the barrel since I had it a few months back and have put over 200 rounds through it. Would this cause the random groupings It could well be. Especially if it has been shooting well but has deteriorated. I would certainly start the procss of elimination with a properly clean, dry, oil free bore. Shoot the ammo that suit it best and shoot from clean. Then you know its not the bore or the ammo, unless you've changed batches recently, even if its the same brand. Check batch numbers on the box and when you start a different batch re-check the zero. If its not ammo or bore, you haven't damaged the crown, the bullets aren't clipping the mod and the barrel isn't coming into contact with the forend, it'll be a scope or scope mounting problem. (I assume you've checked the scope mounts are tight.) Edited December 23, 2012 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregthegreat Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) As Gimlet says above, it's a process of elimination. I'd do as follows: 1. Clean the bore and leave it dry and oil free. 2. Re-fit the mod as you had zeroed with it previously I presume..? 3. Check scope is secure, set correctly, elev/windage drums are secure and nothing is loose etc. 4. With your most reliable ammo check zero at 40yds with bipod and without. Fire 5 round groups from each position ensuring minimal movement between shots. If it's OK at 40 yds then try working your way back further. If not, this list may be of use to work through. They're factors affecting the application of fire, where application is you using your zero to hit a given target: Fire Position - use one you know is good ie. how you zeroed, stable, consistent. Light - different light conditions will change how you see the target. Attachments - they will affect the harmonics of the rifle eg. bipod, moderator, even a sling. Positional Support - ensure barrel is not rested, whatever you use for support will vary the result at the target. Wind - be aware of its effects and compensate. Inefficient Zero - ensure it is carried out correctly. Do no adjust on a bad shot or a first shot. Wet&oily Ammunition - will cause in increase in chamber pressure. If it's still not good, get a more experienced shot to try it. Regards, Greg. Edited December 23, 2012 by Gregthegreat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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