Use it or loose it??

[thepasty]

My FEO said "use it or lose it" essentially... but even going out a couple of times a year is still using it and demonstrates a need so all thats likely to happen is the amount of ammunition I could hold would be reduced as I dont have a "need" for that much.

[kent]

Well my .22 lr has mainly sat in the safe the last 12mnths. I left the rabbits alone this summer for steadying the new pup and they got mixi again come the autumn and numbers crashed. Think I have shot 3-4 bunnies with it in the last 12mnths, the fact that numbers will fluctuate year on year doesn't effect my "good reason" . I spoke with one of the local keepers about reloading for his 22-250 but he says a box of 20 lasts him over a year so does this diminish his good reason in any way? not in my opinion that's 20 dead foxes I know many who shoot 20 rounds or more each weekend yet only an odd fox a year at most and their certs were granted for foxing. I could easily shoot a full brick of .22 lr out the back but it would not increase my "good reason" in reality. The numbers will increase again that's the very nature of rabbits as will my ammo requirements. Perhaps as a recently granted FAC holder one should exercise a little more prudence as regards usage.

I have a little concern over the .243 though as I only tend to shoot deer now on request (injured, sick orphaned etc) and although it is also conditioned as a dedicated fox rifle, the Hornet has been doing a lot of that work when the wind aint howling and as we have a new, keen and competent young keeper on the neighbouring grouse moor there has been less pressure on me in that respect. Its not loosing the gun that I fear, its the possibility of an ammo drop. I was rather hoping to get that raised as I now have many favoured loads for different jobs (that's the real key to the .243 BTW)and supporting that on pure usage is going to be difficult

[Vince Green]

When I buy .22 ammo at Bisley it doesn't even get entered on my certificate, so for years I didn't bother to have it recorded but now I do. .22 ammo starts at about £3 a box maybe less than that, It doesn't seem that long ago I was buying CCIs for £19.95 a brick so even if you just buy it and blat if off ( or even dig a hole and bury it )who's to know?

 

Or give it to me, I can get through several hundred rounds in a morning easily.

 

There must be many deer rifles that only shoot one box every five years. If you shoot a rabbit every week for dinner its only one box a year

[mossy835]

when i had my fac, i bought 200 rounds in 5 years and still got my renewal.

[Paxtond]

you guys have got me thinking, i buy all my .22lr amo at the club as they charge us the same for 1 box as i would get for buying 5000, they dont enter it, and i reload all my center fire stuff so my ammo sheet is empty

 

i do however keep a file with invoices for bullets, cases and powder

 

could this cause a problem?

[kent]

you guys have got me thinking, i buy all my .22lr amo at the club as they charge us the same for 1 box as i would get for buying 5000, they dont enter it, and i reload all my center fire stuff so my ammo sheet is empty

 

i do however keep a file with invoices for bullets, cases and powder

 

could this cause a problem?

If your using expanding they should be entered on your cert. Club use of non expanding is backed up by your secretary confirming your regular attendance - a committee member is requested as a reference on target shooter granted FAC I think?

[Paxtond]

If your using expanding they should be entered on your cert. Club use of non expanding is backed up by your secretary confirming your regular attendance - a committee member is requested as a reference on target shooter granted FAC I think?

 

 

i do have some expanding but i got a load of it free with my cz452 and it wasnt entered.

 

yes club secretary was one of my refrences

 

at least the club have a record, i burn though about 1500 rounds a month

[Dunkield]

3. Do bear in mind that a reduction in ammo holding is a PARTIAL REVOCATION OF YOUR CERTIFICATE. If the police ever suggest lowering your ammo holding you must refuse. The question on the application form 'have you ever had a FAC refused or revoked' legally for-evermore you would have to tick yes. I ran this past a lawyer I know and he confirmed it.

 

 

Don't see that at all, how can you justify having say 1000 hold limit and you have used only 20 of them in 5 years? any FLO will reduce that.

I don't think it makes you any more or less 'safe' holding less but please don't tell it's our right to hold as much as we feel like.

[Paxtond]

tbh i dont see the point in hold limits.

 

how am i less of a threat with 2500 .22lr than 5000 rounds

 

i would hope if i went nuts the police would have "retired me" way before i had chance to get half way through my stored limit

[Vince Green]

tbh i dont see the point in hold limits.

 

how am i less of a threat with 2500 .22lr than 5000 rounds

 

i would hope if i went nuts the police would have "retired me" way before i had chance to get half way through my stored limit

 

Yes and the other argument is if you were a dangerous fruitloop you would just stockpile ammo and ignore the limits in any case. There is no way of them checking except from the infomation you provide.

[Sheldon Cooper]

Ok so what I don't understand it says on my licence to be use for zeroing and pest control bla bla ...... So if you aren't a member of a club then how can you practice you shooting skills. Obv you don't practice on live quarry and i do not have target shooting conditiond or am i a club member.so "plinking" or putting out tin cans, chalk targets or paper to shoot at are you braking the law? I would imagine that this is what most people do to an extent. What worries me is like some people have said rabbit number go up and down so some times there is little need to shoot and at these time you shooting skills will suffer. A rabbit/ crows brain and hart is a small target at 80 90 yards even 50 for that matter.

 

Edited December 29, 2012 by Sheldon Cooper

[JonathanL]

I've had my FAC/ .22lr for about a year & a half now.

Me & the wife had our first child just over a year so time is very tight.

Been talking to a few mates & they say I need to start using the rifle/buying more ammo etc or I won't get a renewal granted to it comes round?? Is this true? ?

 

Possible but not likely. There is no specific requirement to actually use a particular firearm, there is merely the requirement to have 'good reason' to acquire and keep it. Never intending to use it would almost certainly mean that you do not have good reason but just because circumstances become such that you have been unable to does not mean you automatically lose your good reason.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Out of interest, has anyone any idea or experience of what is regarded by a firearms dept as a reasonable amount of rounds? I'm sure a lot of us are in the same situation this year with rabbit numbers, and down to virtually nothing round here.

 

It all depends upon circumstances, there is no absolite number. If you have a .416 Rigby for shooting dangerous game in Africa then you may only reasonably go through 20, 30 or 40 rounds during the life of a certificate. If you have it because you have 10 farms with huge rabbit problems and you only go through 20 or 30 rounds then questions are likely to be asked as you are clearly not using it for de-populating the local bunnies.

 

Every case is judged in its individual facts and merits.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

You'd be committing an offence unless he signed them onto your ticket. Simples.

 

You wouldn't. You can posses a rifle and ammunition in the pressence of the occupier or his servant as long as he has a cert for it. If your mate has an FAC for the ammo then you can be in possession of it, the fact that it is fired through your rifle rather than his is immaterial as far as I can see.

 

J.

[kent]

Ok so what I don't understand it says on my licence to be use for zeroing and pest control bla bla ...... So if you aren't a member of a club then how can you practice you shooting skills. Obv you don't practice on live quarry and i do not have target shooting conditiond or am i a club member.so "plinking" or putting out tin cans, chalk targets or paper to shoot at are you braking the law? I would imagine that this is what most people do to an extent. What worries me is like some people have said rabbit number go up and down so some times there is little need to shoot and at these time you shooting skills will suffer. A rabbit/ crows brain and hart is a small target at 80 90 yards even 50 for that matter.

Sort of depends on who we are talking about, just because someone aint using their .22rf much one year don't mean they don't go through a stack of ammo with other guns and do they practice dry firing skills also how long have they been doing it? . Also quite a lot of hunters have land available and are not avid clubmen, it don't take a lot to maintain skill levels compared to those expended to build them

[JonathanL]

tbh i dont see the point in hold limits.

 

how am i less of a threat with 2500 .22lr than 5000 rounds

 

i would hope if i went nuts the police would have "retired me" way before i had chance to get half way through my stored limit

 

Ammo limits are a total and utter waste of everyones time and effort. Even if the public safety were enhanced by keeping everyones limits as low as possible (which it wouldn't) it is something that is impossible to keep track of so why bother with the expense? No one can prove how much ammo your have shot unless a state employed watcher goes out with you and records the use of each and every round. You could be stockpiling ammo for years and no one would know because no one watches you shoot it all.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Ok so what I don't understand it says on my licence to be use for zeroing and pest control bla bla ...... So if you aren't a member of a club then how can you practice you shooting skills. Obv you don't practice on live quarry and i do not have target shooting conditiond or am i a club member.so "plinking" or putting out tin cans, chalk targets or paper to shoot at are you braking the law? I would imagine that this is what most people do to an extent. What worries me is like some people have said rabbit number go up and down so some times there is little need to shoot and at these time you shooting skills will suffer. A rabbit/ crows brain and hart is a small target at 80 90 yards even 50 for that matter.

 

By zeroing. The word is defined widely and is taken to include necessary 'training and testing', which is entirely reasonable.

 

J.

[Davyo]

It appears to be the same for guns, my FLO, stated during my interview as I applied for.22rimmy &.22FAC air. He stated that if you don't go ahead and purchase the guns you have been granted ,when it comes too renewal time 'there could be complications'

Edited December 29, 2012 by Davyo

[kent]

It appears to be the same for guns, my FLO, stated during my interview as I applied for.22rimmy &.22FAC air. He stated that if you don't go ahead and purchase the guns you have been granted ,when it comes too renewal time 'there could be complications'

I was warned my slot for a 7mm moderator would only be renewed once then lost for good by the FEO. They only held onto a variation for one renewal then its deemed you didn't have good reason and its removed. A good reason not to ask for slots me thinks

[JonathanL]

I was warned my slot for a 7mm moderator would only be renewed once then lost for good by the FEO. They only held onto a variation for one renewal then its deemed you didn't have good reason and its removed. A good reason not to ask for slots me thinks

 

This is rubbish. Everything depends upon the circumstances. If you are collector of fine English big game rifles, for instance, it may take you decades to find that particular double rifle in an obscure calibre that only comes up pnce in a blue moon. Just because you havent been able to acquire it doesn't mean you have ceased to have good reason to do so.

 

A renewal coming up with an unfilled authority to acquire will certainly be a reason to enquire further into why it hasn't been filled but is not a reason of its self to fail to renew the authority.

 

J.

[Sheldon Cooper]

 

Sort of depends on who we are talking about, just because someone aint using their .22rf much one year don't mean they don't go through a stack of ammo with other guns and do they practice dry firing skills also how long have they been doing it? . Also quite a lot of hunters have land available and are not avid clubmen, it don't take a lot to maintain skill levels compared to those expended to build them

 

 

I wasn't questioning any ones shooting skills I was just Using your comment to highlight a point. to maintain a good level of accuracy I think that regular practice and many more shot take practicing are needed that on live targets. But how can you do this with out "shooting practice" on your licence if you needed 10000 shots in practice to shoot a few rabbits each year

 

[Sheldon Cooper]

 

 

By zeroing. The word is defined widely and is taken to include necessary 'training and testing', which is entirely reasonable.

 

J.

 

Ok but to what end if I think I need to shoot 10000 practice shot a year to shoot 1 rabbit is that ok.

 

[apache]

Ok but to what end if I think I need to shoot 10000 practice shot a year to shoot 1 rabbit is that ok.

Yes

 

Yes

 

But you couldn't enter a competition

[Sheldon Cooper]

 

Yes

 

 

 

But you couldn't enter a competition

 

Ok when I asked for a .223 the flo said I know guys in you area that only shoot 6/7 foxes a year so if you start using loads of ammo people will start asking questions .

[bedwards1966]

Ok when I asked for a .223 the flo said I know guys in you area that only shoot 6/7 foxes a year so if you start using loads of ammo people will start asking questions .

 

Not really. It's perfectly reasonable, and normal, to go through large amounts of ammo. Finding what type of ammo shoots best for a particular gun, changing scopes, practicing, reloading and doing lots of shooting. Just because some people only shoot 6-7 foxes a year doesn't mean another person doesn't go out every night and shoot thousands of acres.