JonathanL Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 When I had the barrel shortened and rethreaded on my old Remington the Rfd that did the work would not let me have the 4inch piece of barrel that had been cut off. His explaination was that it was still classed as a firearm, maybe because it was rifled I don't know. After a few hundred rifles though he would have a nice bonus from the scrappy. He was wrong. A piece of barrel that has been chopped off is not a component part and is not subject to any licensing at all. A 'Component Part' means just that - a component of a firearm, a piece which makes it work and which was designed for use with a particular firearm. If it cannot be fitted to a firearm then it is difficult so see how it could be a component part. A piece of metal tube, rifled or not, is not part of a firearm. It may be capable of becomiong part of a firerm with further work (as may be a lump of iron ore) but it is not part of a firearm as it stands. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Indeed many air rifles use barrels that could be used for powder charged projectiles......... The chamber is the key bit...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Blimey ! What a minefield ! Now try explaining to a Judge you left your Shotgun barrels (Chambered to take a live round) with Joe blogs down the road to "Reblue" and he made a action to fire from them, I get the feeling you'd be behind bars as Quick as a flash for Conspiracy to commit a crime Yes a shotgun licence holder can hold extra barrels for His/Her Shotgun without them being on his/her ticket But Giving/selling/leaving in the care of a Non License holder pressure bearing parts for Section One or Section Two firearms you will find is Against the Law ! Why would the Home Office insist we (RFD's) cut whacking great slots and weld solid steel bars in the chambers of Shotguns to take them Off ticket to be sold to the genral public as Deactivated Weapons if anybody can own Shotgun barrels ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Perhaps you didn't read above but section 2 components are exempt on their own. The same is the instance for reloading, a person without a licence can legally buy most reloading components (not primers) but if they make a complete bullet and that caliber is not on their licence then they are breaking the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Perhaps you didn't read above but section 2 components are exempt on their own. The same is the instance for reloading, a person without a licence can legally buy most reloading components (not primers) but if they make a complete bullet and that caliber is not on their licence then they are breaking the law. I did read All of the above, i'm an RFD and there's No way on this plannet i'd Sell give or Loan Shotgun Barrels or other Section 2 Pressure bearing parts to a non License holder because its against the Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 (1)In this Act, the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes— (a)any prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon as aforesaid or not; and (b)any component part of such a lethal or prohibited weapon; and ©any accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon; and so much of section 1 of this Act as excludes any description of firearm from the category of firearms to which that section applies shall be construed as also excluding component parts of, and accessories to, firearms of that description." My own view for what its worth is what is said in bold above - a shotgun is a lethal barrelled weapon and again, in my view ALL components of a shotgun are therefore to be treated as firearms, being component parts. What can or may not be done with component p[arts depends upon prosecutions and attitude of law enforcers but its as clear as day to me that ANY part of a shotgun is caught by this statement (in bold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Blimey ! What a minefield ! Now try explaining to a Judge you left your Shotgun barrels (Chambered to take a live round) with Joe blogs down the road to "Reblue" and he made a action to fire from them, I get the feeling you'd be behind bars as Quick as a flash for Conspiracy to commit a crime Yes a shotgun licence holder can hold extra barrels for His/Her Shotgun without them being on his/her ticket But Giving/selling/leaving in the care of a Non License holder pressure bearing parts for Section One or Section Two firearms you will find is Against the Law ! Why would the Home Office insist we (RFD's) cut whacking great slots and weld solid steel bars in the chambers of Shotguns to take them Off ticket to be sold to the genral public as Deactivated Weapons if anybody can own Shotgun barrels ? is welding the bars in it because you are giving them the whole gun so as for it not being ever able to fire another shot i might be wrong . this is certainly an interesting topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Blimey ! What a minefield ! Now try explaining to a Judge you left your Shotgun barrels (Chambered to take a live round) with Joe blogs down the road to "Reblue" and he made a action to fire from them, I get the feeling you'd be behind bars as Quick as a flash for Conspiracy to commit a crime Yes a shotgun licence holder can hold extra barrels for His/Her Shotgun without them being on his/her ticket But Giving/selling/leaving in the care of a Non License holder pressure bearing parts for Section One or Section Two firearms you will find is Against the Law ! Why would the Home Office insist we (RFD's) cut whacking great slots and weld solid steel bars in the chambers of Shotguns to take them Off ticket to be sold to the genral public as Deactivated Weapons if anybody can own Shotgun barrels ? If they can make an action to fit a random set of barrels they can knock up the barrels no problem! Deacts are a different topic as they are complete! What about obsolete calibres they get sold complete! 14 bore pinfire you can buy the whole lot off ticket! Giving them to a company to re blue is not the same as giving them to a random jo bloggs..... Edited February 2, 2013 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Giving them to a company to re blue is not the same as giving them to a random jo bloggs..... So a company (Ltd or plc) is in someway special ? How, exactly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northamptonclay Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Traceability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 So a company (Ltd or plc) is in someway special ? How, exactly ? There is a clause " in the course of normal business" etc hence why GMK etc are not RFD's and their staff can handle firearms for business purposes without need a ticket just like Royal Mail and TNT etc if its company function it's different defence contractors don't need certs for having military weapons as part of their business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I did read All of the above, i'm an RFD and there's No way on this plannet i'd Sell give or Loan Shotgun Barrels or other Section 2 Pressure bearing parts to a non License holder because its against the Law Can you provide a quote to prove that it is against the law? If you are a trade member of BASC, ask them! Think about it for a second. You say above that you know spare barrels don't need to be listed on tickets. Does that not suggest to you that perhaps they are not controlled parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodo123 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Interesting topic at what point does a component or "parts" become a gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Can you provide a quote to prove that it is against the law? If you are a trade member of BASC, ask them! Think about it for a second. You say above that you know spare barrels don't need to be listed on tickets. Does that not suggest to you that perhaps they are not controlled parts? This is the correct answer, we have been down this road a few times before and it's always those who have no idea at all who say it's illegal to leave your barrels with someone, or you have to enter spare barrels on your SGC. Some Police forces tell you to do it but it's not a legal requirement at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Yeah it's no wonder gun control is so bad in this country, This is the correct answer, we have been down this road a few times before and it's always those who have no idea at all who say it's illegal to leave your barrels with someone, or you have to enter spare barrels on your SGC. Some Police forces tell you to do it but it's not a legal requirement at all. Yeah it's no wonder that gun control is so pervasive in this country, we're doing the bleeding job for them! Making up rules and regulations that don't exist. A bit like the guy further up the thread sauing he keeps his cartridges locked up. Why? Do you keep knives and maybe axes locked up. What about really sharp gardening shears? The cartridges are not going to leap out and fire themselves. Edited February 2, 2013 by Steppenwolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Blimey ! What a minefield ! Now try explaining to a Judge you left your Shotgun barrels (Chambered to take a live round) with Joe blogs down the road to "Reblue" and he made a action to fire from them, I get the feeling you'd be behind bars as Quick as a flash for Conspiracy to commit a crime Of course you wouldn't, unless they could prove that you and him had an agreement to do that to begin with. If your mate does something illegal it is not your problem. Parliament has said what they law is and has chosen to make a specific point that shotgun components are not shotguns under these circumstances. Yes a shotgun licence holder can hold extra barrels for His/Her Shotgun without them being on his/her ticket But Giving/selling/leaving in the care of a Non License holder pressure bearing parts for Section One or Section Two firearms you will find is Against the Law ! Have you read the extracts from the Firearms Act that I quoted and linked to anf the HO guidance? Can you provide a link or quote to anything in the Fireams Act which supports what you say? Why would the Home Office insist we (RFD's) cut whacking great slots and weld solid steel bars in the chambers of Shotguns to take them Off ticket to be sold to the genral public as Deactivated Weapons if anybody can own Shotgun barrels ? The deactivation criteria are not the same thing. That is merely the standard to which something must be deactivated in order to get a proof house stamp. J. Perhaps you didn't read above but section 2 components are exempt on their own. The same is the instance for reloading, a person without a licence can legally buy most reloading components (not primers) but if they make a complete bullet round of ammunition and that caliber is not on their licence then they are breaking the law. Corrected for you. J. I did read All of the above, i'm an RFD and there's No way on this plannet i'd Sell give or Loan Shotgun Barrels or other Section 2 Pressure bearing parts to a non License holder because its against the Law No they aren't. Can you provide a link to the part of the law you claim negatives section 57? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 (1)In this Act, the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes— (a)any prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon as aforesaid or not; and (b)any component part of such a lethal or prohibited weapon; and ©any accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon; and so much of section 1 of this Act as excludes any description of firearm from the category of firearms to which that section applies shall be construed as also excluding component parts of, and accessories to, firearms of that description." My own view for what its worth is what is said in bold above - a shotgun is a lethal barrelled weapon and again, in my view ALL components of a shotgun are therefore to be treated as firearms, being component parts. What can or may not be done with component p[arts depends upon prosecutions and attitude of law enforcers but its as clear as day to me that ANY part of a shotgun is caught by this statement (in bold) You have just ignored the part underlined. You cannot just selectively quote certain parts. Yes, the part in bold means what you say it means but the underlined part reduces its scope and removes component parts which are not section 1. J. So a company (Ltd or plc) is in someway special ? How, exactly ? Because the Firearms Act says that if you repair firearms by way of trade or business you must be an RFD. If you just give them to your mate he is not doing it by way of trade or business so doesn't need to be an RFD. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I must say be careful of any removal of metal from the bores by a non RFD though, as it then could become an issue regarding proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 There is a clause " in the course of normal business" etc hence why GMK etc are not RFD's and their staff can handle firearms for business purposes without need a ticket just like Royal Mail and TNT etc if its company function it's different defence contractors don't need certs for having military weapons as part of their business. I can assure you that GMK most certainly are an RFD. Each individual working for GMK is allowed to handle the firearms and ammunition that GMK has in its stock as the Firearms Act creates an exemption for an RFD's servant and they are servants of the RFD by virtue of being in his employ. Carries such as those you mention don't need to be RFD's as the Act creates an examption for them. Defence contractors still need to be RFDs. There is a section allowing the police to exempt certain defence companies from needing to be RFD's if they don't handle complete weapons. J. Interesting topic at what point does a component or "parts" become a gun? When it's assmbled. Also, section 1 parts are firearms in their own right by virtue of section 57. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy1403 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 heres something to add to the mix.how would you know and stand if the barrel came from a S1 semi auto as the barrels from a S1 and a S2 are the same it`s the mag tube that changes a S1 to a S2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 heres something to add to the mix.how would you know and stand if the barrel came from a S1 semi auto as the barrels from a S1 and a S2 are the same it`s the mag tube that changes a S1 to a S2? You wouldn't know until it was proved either way - if the barrel bore the number of a sec.1 gun you'd be in trouble. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel100 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I'll jump back in here again, having commented early on and agreed 100% with Jonathan L. (Thanks Jonathan, I'd not got the relevant paperwork to hand when I originally commented). In the case of a smooth bore barrel of 24" / 61cms or longer, I would argue that it is a s2 barrel until such time as it is united with the s1 action / magazine. However, if you really want some confusion ... What happens if you have say, two identical semi autos. Both with detachable 26" smooth bore barrels. One gun is certified and certificated as a s2 limited mag. and the other has an unrestricted mag. Basically, you could swap tubes. Each tube is then either s1 or s2 dependent upon which gun it's fitted to. But what happens when you take them apart and just have the components laying there, in front of you?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I'll jump back in here again, having commented early on and agreed 100% with Jonathan L. (Thanks Jonathan, I'd not got the relevant paperwork to hand when I originally commented). In the case of a smooth bore barrel of 24" / 61cms or longer, I would argue that it is a s2 barrel until such time as it is united with the s1 action / magazine. However, if you really want some confusion ... What happens if you have say, two identical semi autos. Both with detachable 26" smooth bore barrels. One gun is certified and certificated as a s2 limited mag. and the other has an unrestricted mag. Basically, you could swap tubes. Each tube is then either s1 or s2 dependent upon which gun it's fitted to. But what happens when you take them apart and just have the components laying there, in front of you?! Under Cumbria Constabulary wisdom only the reciever of the section one would be classed as such. Any other part could be interchanged as barrel serial numbers are not recorded in transactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 so ok ,,lets put it into plain english instead of court jargon,,,,,, can joe bloggs with no certificate re blue his friends barrel,,,,,, if the cert holder kept the rest of the gun locked up and only gave him the section 2 barrel to re blue yes or no ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Yes. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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