Organ donation and the B.M.A idea

[welsh1]

 

I had a card many years ago but haven't seen it in a long time. I'm on the register though which is what matters. The card is just evidence that you are on the register.

 

Currently you have to do something to be on the register. It's far easier if there is a presumption that everyone is and you have a register of those who don't want to donate. For a start it's easy and totally unambiguous to define who doesn't go on the transplant register.

 

Lots of people don't go on the register not because they don't want to be but for reasons such as they don't want to think about their own death, have better things to do, etc, etc. I suspect that people actually want that decision taken away from them. If people have real objections to donating then they can opt out. I would fancy that the vast majority of people won't though and there will be fewer who want to opt-out who won't get round to doing it.

 

J.

 

 

Yes and I still can't see how the system can be exploitd by bent doctors or inefficiant admin staff any worse than the current one. You, nor anyone else, has explained how it could be.

 

J.

So you are on the register,but can't be bothered to carry a card talk about apathy.

 

As for the last line that you seem to now have deleted,you still haven't bothered to read the whole thread have you, as you have have not seen what i posted as this was quite clear.

 

If you want to debate then have the decency to read the thread to see what has been said before,as i am covering old ground out of courtesy to you, but you cannot be bothered to flick through a few pages and realise that all that you are saying has been debated already, and in a good and lively way.

 

As much as i like a good debate, i feel that i will not have one with you as i have read most of your posts in the past,you will not yield from a position you take at the beginning of your posts, you do not take on board anyone else's points,and i am not going to go round the houses a dozen times with you because you are blinkered.

 

Debate yes,banging my head against a wall called Jonathan no.

[The Essex Hunter]

 

No one is forcing you to read it.

 

In case you missed it; this forum is called 'Off Topic'. The Of Topic on a shooting forum would usually involve things not about shooting.

 

J.

 

 

For once you are correct, however if you spent as much time in the field watching flight lines as you do typing in the “Off Topic” then your posts might have some value to them….

 

Just out of interest, what do you do for a job? Don’t be shy!

As it might explain a lot…

I work as a mechanical engineer.

 

 

TEH

[welsh1]

 

 

For once you are correct, however if you spent as much time in the field watching flight lines as you do typing in the “Off Topic” then your posts might have some value to them….

 

Just out of interest, what do you do for a job? Don’t be shy!

As it might explain a lot…

I work as a mechanical engineer.

 

 

TEH

Classic

[JonathanL]

So you are on the register,but can't be bothered to carry a card talk about apathy.

 

As for the last line that you seem to now have deleted,you still haven't bothered to read the whole thread have you, as you have have not seen what i posted as this was quite clear.

 

If you want to debate then have the decency to read the thread to see what has been said before,as i am covering old ground out of courtesy to you, but you cannot be bothered to flick through a few pages and realise that all that you are saying has been debated already, and in a good and lively way.

 

As much as i like a good debate, i feel that i will not have one with you as i have read most of your posts in the past,you will not yield from a position you take at the beginning of your posts, you do not take on board anyone else's points,and i am not going to go round the houses a dozen times with you because you are blinkered.

 

Debate yes,banging my head against a wall called Jonathan no.

 

The card isn't needed. It's symbolic. If I get killed in an accident they check the register and see that I'm a donor so I don't need the card. The card dosen't give anyone authority to harvest your organs, the register does.

 

I haven't deleted anything, as far as I recall. Can you tell me what I'm supposed to have deleted?

 

I've re-read your posts. I still don't see your points. How is an opt-in system more dangerous than the current opt-in one? If somones death can be hastened in an opt-out system then it can be hastened in an opt-in system if they are on the register.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

 

 

For once you are correct, however if you spent as much time in the field watching flight lines as you do typing in the “Off Topic” then your posts might have some value to them….

 

Just out of interest, what do you do for a job? Don’t be shy!

As it might explain a lot…

I work as a mechanical engineer.

 

 

TEH

 

What does it matter what either of us does for a job and how on earth does doing anything standing in a field have any bearing upon how my posts on totally unrelated subjects are taken?

 

J.

Edited July 2, 2013 by JonathanL

[welsh1]

Do you actually shoot,or does your whole world revolve around trying to rub everyone up the wrong way.

As for your job please tell as we have a little sweep stake going.

 

Isn't it past your bedtime?

[Pole Star]

Do you actually shoot,or does your whole world revolve around trying to rub everyone up the wrong way.

As for your job please tell as we have a little sweep stake going.

 

Isn't it past your bedtime?

 

[JonathanL]

Chaps, if you can't handle debating stuff then why bother frequenting forums like this? If all you want to do is back slap each other in mas agreement agreement then why bother with the discussion?debate

 

If you want to debate stuff then expect people to actually debate and discuss.

 

J.

[Gordon R]

Welsh1 - my money is on a failed lawyer.

 

The Essex Hunter - he will cut and paste your comments and post a raft of new replies, each with a series of challenges, paying no regard to whatever points you make.

 

For the record - getting back on thread - I don't like the idea of being in the system unless you opt out, but do believe in being an organ donor. I used to carry a card, but lost it some years ago. I am less than convinced that this is safely recorded on the National Donor Database, but I am sure the Forum oddball will be along to give that re-assurance, without the knowledge to back it up.

 

The thread has prompted me to do something about that. I will get a new one - so thanks to the OP.

[welsh1]

Welsh1 - my money is on a failed lawyer.

 

The Essex Hunter - he will cut and paste your comments and post a raft of new replies, each with a series of challenges, paying no regard to whatever points you make.

 

For the record - getting back on thread - I don't like the idea of being in the system unless you opt out, but do believe in being an organ donor. I used to carry a card, but lost it some years ago. I am less than convinced that this is safely recorded on the National Donor Database, but I am sure the Forum oddball will be along to give that re-assurance, without the knowledge to back it up.

 

The thread has prompted me to do something about that. I will get a new one - so thanks to the OP.

 

Great minds think alike,my money is on trainee/uni lawyer

 

As for the thread we think alike.

 

On the news tonight the welsh assembly(read plastic government) has just passed a motion that will see opt out in Wales,so here's my dilemma,I will opt out because in principal I do not agree with it,but will still have my card,be on the register as is now,and my wishes in a will( living) should it come to that.no politician can tell me what do do with my body,and Jonathan I don't give a gnats knacker what you think,except we still need to know your occupation,or is school boy a tad embarrassing,but fear not there are a few more people who have you listed for other jobs, come on not embarrassed are you,you know most of our occupations.and we can all see you skulking on this thread.

[Boromir]

Wales is becoming a dictatorship run by the Tafia.

 

Whats wrong with the old system. I wouldnt mind donating organs as long I get a say on the type of person receiving them ie not somebody who is a alcoholic smoker drug user self inflicted who will probably keep on abusing his/her body as well as the donated organ.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Boromir

[bruno22rf]

I don't understand why people can consider this a "Big Brother" or Government run abuse of our rights, where's the advantage to any government/medical organisation? The cost of transplantation is huge and the only beneficiary is the recipient and their families, not the authorities. I think that opting out is cowardly, when you're dead you're dead-end of.

[welsh1]

I don't understand why people can consider this a "Big Brother" or Government run abuse of our rights, where's the advantage to any government/medical organisation? The cost of transplantation is huge and the only beneficiary is the recipient and their families, not the authorities. I think that opting out is cowardly, when you're dead you're dead-end of.

 

Funny no one has had that opinion in all the pages of this thread.

 

 

Only kidding,it is a roundabout of a thread,but please don't call me cowardly.

Could you post up a picture of your donor card please?

[Penelope]

They can have what they like from me when I'm gone.

 

The noblest form of charity IMO.

 

On the register since I was 18, Anthony Nolan Trust and blood too.

 

fergie's and Jonathan's post have nailed the argument as far as I'm concerned.

[ack-ack]

I'm not comfortable with the scheme but i would want to benefit from it so it would be a bit of a double standard for me to not support it.

[welsh1]

So Wales have gone and voted consent in,now the rest of the country don't have to bother because in a twist to this debacle Welsh organs will be available to all of the uk.

 

It will also be interesting to see what various religious groups will now do as they are already protesting that they should not have this thrust upon them.

 

The bbc site funnily enough states that countries that have this scheme only see a very small increse with on average 15 extra donors and approximately 45 extra organs,taking this into account,is the proposed 8 million on advertising and then the running costs of the scheme worth it.(harsh I know but has to be said,please don't use the "if it saves one life"argument)

Surley given the average increase they expect in organs this money could have been better spent on an advertising campaign to get more volunteers and probably had a greater success.

 

If the politicians weren't so intent on preening themselves they could have raised the donation rate by advertising,look at the bone marrow register,a few years ago it was virtually un heard of,but thanks to the hard work of some people they now have a good database of volunteers(you can become one as well)and this was archived by educating people to the merits of being on the list,not forcing them.

 

 

And just to finish, why are the welsh assembly now wasting 8 million on advertising,as everyone is automatically enrolled on the register,and if I am to believe certain people on here no one will bother to take themselves off the list as they are to idle to do it.

 

8 million, how many dyalisis machines and support staff would that buy?

 

 

I

Edited July 3, 2013 by welsh1

[KFC]

I don't understand why people can consider this a "Big Brother" or Government run abuse of our rights, where's the advantage to any government/medical organisation? The cost of transplantation is huge and the only beneficiary is the recipient and their families, not the authorities. I think that opting out is cowardly, when you're dead you're dead-end of.

 

I think it is usual 'thin end of the wedge' process by the gummint. It will be profiteering medical companies lobbying that has bought about the opt-out and so my body will be owned by them.

 

I'm not a coward, I will opt out because during my RAF service I was irradiated several times and, even after decontamination, I'm still well above background Alpha with a 50 year half-life.

I have checks and some of my old comrades have karked it as a result so I wouldn't wish my organs on anyone.

 

I guess the lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of all the compensation claims that will arise because insufficient checks will have been carried out when they start transplants as a matter of course.

[The Essex Hunter]

 

What does it matter what either of us does for a job and how on earth does doing anything standing in a field have any bearing upon how my posts on totally unrelated subjects are taken?

 

J.

 

What

 

 

What does it matter what either of us does for a job and how on earth does doing anything standing in a field have any bearing upon how my posts on totally unrelated subjects are taken?

 

J.

 

Why I asked what you do (and I see you have yet to say what it is)

Because over the years of working with hundreds of different trades, dealing with the general public in all sorts of circumstances, quite often peoples work and life experiences come out in some form or another with out them realizing it.

Reading through some of the posts and comments over time you defiantly fall into that bracket…

I have been racking my brains to match your work relative with you’re boring repetitive posts….

Gordon R made a valid comment..

Welsh1 - my money is on a failed lawyer.

The Essex Hunter - he will cut and paste your comments and post a raft of new replies, each with a series of challenges, paying no regard to whatever points you make.

My money is on a lower position in the civil service…..

 

 

 

TEH

[JonathanL]

Great minds think alike,my money is on trainee/uni lawyer

 

As for the thread we think alike.

 

On the news tonight the welsh assembly(read plastic government) has just passed a motion that will see opt out in Wales,so here's my dilemma,I will opt out because in principal I do not agree with it,but will still have my card,be on the register as is now,and my wishes in a will( living) should it come to that.no politician can tell me what do do with my body,and Jonathan I don't give a gnats knacker what you think,except we still need to know your occupation,or is school boy a tad embarrassing,but fear not there are a few more people who have you listed for other jobs, come on not embarrassed are you,you know most of our occupations.and we can all see you skulking on this thread.

 

You need to know my occupation? Really! I didn't realise that I was such a source of obsession to so many people.

 

You don't need to know my occupation or anything else about me. If you aren't capable of discussing things according to their own specific facts and circumstances then what difference does anyones occupation or education make? You, and so many others, have already decided what you think of what I have to say; if I told you that I were a QC with fifty years of experience behind me along with a medical degree you'd still think the same and would still find some witty (to you) retort to dismiss whatever I had to say.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Great minds think alike,my money is on trainee/uni lawyer

 

As for the thread we think alike.

 

On the news tonight the welsh assembly(read plastic government) has just passed a motion that will see opt out in Wales,so here's my dilemma,I will opt out because in principal I do not agree with it,but will still have my card,be on the register as is now,and my wishes in a will( living) should it come to that.no politician can tell me what do do with my body,and Jonathan I don't give a gnats knacker what you think,except we still need to know your occupation,or is school boy a tad embarrassing,but fear not there are a few more people who have you listed for other jobs, come on not embarrassed are you,you know most of our occupations.and we can all see you skulking on this thread.

 

Surely the new system replaces the old? We go from an opt-in system to an opt-out one? How can you opt-out yet still be a donor? You can't, it is a contradiction. So, to remain on the 'register' you simply do nothing.

 

J.

 

Wales is becoming a dictatorship run by the Tafia.

 

Whats wrong with the old system. I wouldnt mind donating organs as long I get a say on the type of person receiving them ie not somebody who is a alcoholic smoker drug user self inflicted who will probably keep on abusing his/her body as well as the donated organ.

 

Well, the old system doesn't allow you to do that. You are either a donor or you are not. You don't get to choose the type of recipient.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

It will also be interesting to see what various religious groups will now do as they are already protesting that they should not have this thrust upon them.

 

 

I hadn't heard of any religious groups saying that. I could understand their concerns if they were required to be donors (not saying that I'd agree with them) but this system isn't about that.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

 

I think it is usual 'thin end of the wedge' process by the gummint. It will be profiteering medical companies lobbying that has bought about the opt-out and so my body will be owned by them.

 

I'm not a coward, I will opt out because during my RAF service I was irradiated several times and, even after decontamination, I'm still well above background Alpha with a 50 year half-life.

I have checks and some of my old comrades have karked it as a result so I wouldn't wish my organs on anyone.

 

I guess the lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of all the compensation claims that will arise because insufficient checks will have been carried out when they start transplants as a matter of course.

 

But surely if that is the case they wouldn't use your organs in any event?

 

I don't follow the logic that once you have opted out your body is owned by the government at the behest of medical companies. Surely if you opt-out then the opposite is true?

 

The opt-out system is actually safer for people who don't want to be donors because it will mean that their organs can never be used for transplant if that is something they don't want to happen. Currently there is no method by which you can make that decision.

 

J.

[Gordon R]

 

if I told you that I were a QC with fifty years of experience behind me along with a medical degree you'd still think the same and would still find some witty (to you) retort to dismiss whatever I had to say.

 

If you were to state that, I would probably have a heart attack before I had managed to re-register with the organ donation scheme.

 

Considering the length of time it takes to become a QC, leaving some of your marginal time to obtain the medical degree, I would probably think exactly what I do now. Your style of posting and the blinkered content leads me to believe you don't have the intellect for either.

[welsh1]

 

You need to know my occupation? Really! I didn't realise that I was such a source of obsession to so many people.

 

You don't need to know my occupation or anything else about me. If you aren't capable of discussing things according to their own specific facts and circumstances then what difference does anyones occupation or education make? You, and so many others, have already decided what you think of what I have to say; if I told you that I were a QC with fifty years of experience behind me along with a medical degree you'd still think the same and would still find some witty (to you) retort to dismiss whatever I had to say.

 

J.

Here's my witty retort,

grow up walter and pass your gcse's first

 

 

Surely the new system replaces the old? We go from an opt-in system to an opt-out one? How can you opt-out yet still be a donor? You can't, it is a contradiction. So, to remain on the 'register' you simply do nothing.

 

J

 

J.

Keep up old boy, the register is english and the new opt in is in Wales,so i can opt out of the Welsh version but still be on the register and carry a card.It is a principal thing.For someone who normally quotes chapter and verse you are not very well informed or researched today

 

 

 

I hadn't heard of any religious groups saying that. I could understand their concerns if they were required to be donors (not saying that I'd agree with them) but this system isn't about that.

 

J.

Then you are not as well informed as you like to think, it was on the bbc web page last night, that is why i said it was on the bbc last night

[JonathanL]

 

What

 

 

Why I asked what you do (and I see you have yet to say what it is)

Because over the years of working with hundreds of different trades, dealing with the general public in all sorts of circumstances, quite often peoples work and life experiences come out in some form or another with out them realizing it.

Reading through some of the posts and comments over time you defiantly fall into that bracket…

I have been racking my brains to match your work relative with you’re boring repetitive posts….

Gordon R made a valid comment..

Welsh1 - my money is on a failed lawyer.

The Essex Hunter - he will cut and paste your comments and post a raft of new replies, each with a series of challenges, paying no regard to whatever points you make.

My money is on a lower position in the civil service…..

 

 

 

TEH

 

Well given that you have already profiled me (I'm sure you that are emminently qualified to do so and not just guessing?) you really don't need to know anything about me. Whatever I told you you would simply use to justify your existing preconceptions so it serves no purpose.

 

I still find it amusing that so many people seem to be so obsessive about me.

 

J.