Piebob Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Guys n gals - need your thoughts. I'm wondering if I should take my 9 month Cocker, Rogan, on a rough shoot on Saturday? So far, I've resisted any temptation to take him out shooting but last Sunday I did take him up the margins of a couple of fields where we lost birds the day before- the labs just wouldn't go into the thick whins and brambles (Rogan wasn't there on the day of the shoot). We didn't recover the birds but he was straight in wherever I asked, worked up the cover well and recalled properly every time. There were no other dogs, no guns, just me and the dog. I'm tempted to take him on Saturday to my DIY rough syndicate where it really wouldn't matter too much if he got it a bit wrong. But at the same time, all the advice so far seems to be to leave it until next season. I don't need a field trial dog, just one that will flush and be controlled/controllable. I know that at the moment there is zero chance of sitting to flush - but we have a no ground game rule anyway though. So, what do you think? At what age do you lot expose your dogs to shoot days? He's not gonna learn anything at home right? Or am I completely insane to even think about it? Like to hear your thoughts / experiences. Piebob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millomite Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 There is an old saying in rugby which is: "If you're good enough, you're old enough" However, how applicable this is to dogs is difficult to say. Personally I wouldn't, there is so much that could go wrong and set you back. What if it pegs a live bird? Gets flustered when a flush of birds arises? A shoot day is never the same and because of this I wouldn't risk a young dog. Cockers mature slower than other breeds, and a few people I know dont start training them until they are around 9 months old. Just my view mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Definitely not, you could ruin him. Millomite, there are lots of expressions in rugby and none of them apply to dog ownership, or training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I'm with Cranfield here. Definitely too young for this season. It's all too easy to ruin a young dog. I would leave him at home this season and concentrate on getting him ready for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Piebob. You say he will not sit to flush. So why expose him to the temptation. Saterday it could be a rabbit he runs in on. But next week he could be off chasing pheasants. If he has not had a chance to flush live game under control then why tempt him. When you introduce him to live game I would suggest that you do it as a handler only, not when you are shooting. That way you can see the pitfalls before they happen and take steps to prevent them. If you work on the premise that he is going to go wrong and watch for the signs, then you have a chance to stop the misdemeanour before it happens. And Yes I would leave it till next year. Tiercel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millomite Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Definitely not, you could ruin him. Millomite, there are lots of expressions in rugby and none of them apply to dog ownership, or training. Have you not heard of: "Look at the size of that alsation! I'm not tackling him!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Keep him on the lead and correct when he is going for it if you must take him. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 In my resent experience the biggest lesson learnt is to master the basics before moving on with any field dog. If they have not cracked it before going into the field you may never get the best end result and will have to keep going back a stage. Once the dog in totally under your control with sit, stay, heal work stop whistle etc he has the groundings to move on but not until. As has been said many times if you cant control the dog within arms length you sure as hell cant at 50 yards if you send him out. It’s a real temptation to test them early especially if it’s the only dog you have, and that’s how many a dog turns out half as good as it could be. Be patient and wait, its better to have a cracking dog work for you for 6 or 7 years than make do with an also ran for 8 Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 I`m with the no guys here,your dog is more likely to develop a bad habit with other dogs,guns and all the excitement of a shoot day. Wait til next year and you will(probably) have a paragon of virtue :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamW Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 NO! I did it and have regretted it! I now have a springer that I can't take shooting as he has no steadiness in him what so ever and wants to chase every thing.... he does make a very well trained pet, but no shooting dog........ Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 My thoughts on this are very simple, keep him away from the birds and the shooting until you have full reliable control on him. At that point when you take him to a shoot go as a dog in training only and work the dog on a long lead the first 2 or 3 times. This will allow him to get the sense of the field without the excitment taking over and keeps you in control. Once he is working well on the ong lead you can then proceede to working off lead. ADAMW, tell us about your dog we may be able to help. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamW Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 NTTF, Murray the springer is my first gun dog (I know what your all thinking!) and I did make a few mistakes along the way.... he is now 2 and a bit. I have been going to a trainer for the best part of a year now with both dogs (springer and a cocker) the springer seems hell bent on chasing, something we have tried and tried to get out of him with rabbit pens etc, some weeks he's like the perfect dog, other weeks hes looks like he has had no training what so ever! even the trainer has said "don't spend any more money on him and retire him now!" i took him to shoots too soon, which is the main problem, that said we do have a nice and well trained pet! the cocker on the other hand is fantastic (i didn't make the same mistakes, and the trainer even thinks I have gone over board a little) I now have to walk the dogs separately, as I don't want the cocker picking up the chasing habit, tonight as an example, I walked the cocker, all very good, worked him a little walked him to heal etc, (something i do on most walks, just to make sure he knows what he has to do...) I return home, swap dogs over, get to the first field with Murray.. all OK, walking to heal etc, into next field walk 50 yards a hare gets up and off they both go........... hes gone for 5 mins! when he returns I take him back the the point I hit the whistle and repeat the command, then put lead on walk back to the car and home with out saying a word, this is something I have done in the past, but does it have any affect.... nope! I have no idea what to do next, if anything can be done? Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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