Stalking without a dog?

[al4x]

This has been an interesting week dog and deer wise, started on Friday night with a call from a mate who had shot a muntjac at last light that ran into the field and he couldn't find it could I pop up with my hound. Well we got up there and found the shot site found the trail and I cast her off into the field as she usually picks up the trail from there, it had the option of 4 hedges none very far away but she proceeded to go back to the shot site and then headed straight into the hedge 20ft away and it was in the middle of a very thick holly bush. So had looped in the field, that was with a 308 that had gone in spot on but angled back shredded heart and lungs and it still went. He was rather relieved as it was a location where you don't want to leave them about.

Fast forward to Saturday evening I was out on my bit looking for one and watched from our high seat two crossing into a newly planted tree belt, I stalked in and it really was last light but could just make out enough for the shot sounded good but lost sight straight away. Went up saw loads of blood but couldn't find it so walked back to the high seat and collected the hound again and she took about 20 seconds to diagnose that that had also gone one way then looped back and was 30 yards the opposite direction in the hedge, nice doe perfect heart shot.

Wednesday night I was out again primarily for foxes but saw a decent little buck again just at last light and stalked in and took the shot, now that was being watched by a mate with binocs and though everything felt right the sound and the way it departed looked wrong and didn't sound like a hit. Still I went through the motions dog out again on shot site and she was 40 yards away in the hedge pulling out the buck shot was perfect 85grn soft point from the .243 so we have 3 in a week that she has really done well on, really made me think though the last I was unsure about whether to follow up due to the sound but just shows you really have to make certain and really if you are going to shoot them as the light goes the dog is invaluable. I'm not sure she is doing it in an approved way as its a bit like a bull in a china shop but show her blood and that is usually that. Its still surprises me how muntjac can depart after they have been shot obviously we could start head or neck shooting them but these few were very much last thing daylight wise so I wouldn't want to.

[wildfowler.250]

Least you found them all. I leave the dogs at home but could always come back if I needed them,(its not a far drive). Handy back up though.

[WGD]

Always have the dogs in the truck when I am stalking, same as you al4x, what they do might not be trailing per the book but they will find a carcass for me in thick cover, forestry or last light.

 

Have had to call them up from the carcass though and cast off again and follow though as they will not make any noise and the spaniels in particular have a hell of a job retrieving a roe carcass

[al4x]

Funnily enough the friend who lost the first one had his spaniel and that found it but kept quiet and called off if as though it hadn't found it, my gwp tends to check they are dead so you usually hear and can nearly retrieve muntjac. I only really posted it as 3 on the trot doing the same opens your eyes a bit to how easy they are to loose when you shoot nearly on dark.

[Dunkield]

I have only ever had one 'run' it was about 10 yards, [1000 yards if you believe Stealth Stalker ] all the others have dropped on the spot, all shot with .223

I hear people say they are hard to put down and all that but that certainly isn't my experience, I can't recommend 'target ammo' highly enough for muntjac

[al4x]

Weird isn't it I watched one last summer do 50 yards into a cover crop no heart and lungs and its rumen on the floor the hole in it was that substantial, I was quite happy not to be the one that shot that. I guess none made it huge distances and were dead just didn't know it but none dropped on the spot. These have all been shot in the open which I wonder whether makes them more alert and prone to flight

[Beardo]

i've only had one muntjac runner - glad i had the dog in the car, as i couldn't find it on my own

[Dunkield]

It's just luck, I know damn well it is going to happen sooner or later, I have seen roe run and run with no heart left at all.

[Beretta28g]

Muntjac tend to drop on the spot with my 6.5. Mind you i do tend to pin em through the shoulders

[kent]

Its amazing what can run, never shot muntjac so cannot comment but had many a deer run dead oce I recon a roe couldn't use its legs on the front but it seemed to with a bit of flailing about.A dog is also useful by your side walking thigh to thigh with the wind in their face and eyes at a lower level they see what we don't, smell what we cannot. So there is no reporting with yours Al4x? have you tried bringsel ?if she is a keen retriever, its not hard to train if you have the first bit- baying dead is a pain I can tell you that from experience but its better than a long silent point I started with

 

Muntjac tend to drop on the spot with my 6.5. Mind you i do tend to pin em through the shoulders

I don't think calibre has a great deal to do with it, though breaking both shoulders tends to slow em down

[CWD]

Have shot muntjac and Chinese water deer with a range of calibres and I would say 90% drop on the shot

The other 10% have ran and as both animals are quite small they can take a fair bit of finding ! I usually have the dog in the truck and will always let the dog have a look at strike point even if shooter thinks it was a miss and the dog has found quite a few where shooter was convinced it was a miss because every muntjac they had shot before has dropped on the spot !

As for the way your dog works well that's up to you and the dog and if your both happy and your finding deer then fantastic carry on

The only advice I will give with working a dog loose is just be carefull with roads ,train lines etc. my own dog a BMH couldn't be worked off a tracking lead as he would just go and go if the deer wasn't badly hit

Well done to you and your dog

Regards CWD

[Redgum]

Shot a lot of Munties and must say that, luckily, I have never had one I couldnt find quickly. Had them run a few yards but the ones that have gone furthest have been lung shots or just clipped heart. I have found that Roe generally run the furthest with no heart, literally stopping when the blood runs out. In difficult or dense terrain I tend to stalk more in the morning than at last light, its great having all this fancy glass that gives you an extra half hour but you still have to find the animal. The best practice is, if in doupt don't pull the trigger, theres always another day. I had six fallow does 120yds out infront of me a couple of weeks ago, right in the woodland edge and the light had almost gone, the burris IR made shot placement easy enough but couldnt be sure if the shot was totally clear so just watched them for a while n went home. They'll be there next season ( I hope )

[Sauer020]

Seen plenty run, once sat next to a mate and he shot a roe buck, good heart shot and it ran 40 yards straight into a three foot wide beech tree, it was obviously just operating on adrenaline as it didn't see the tree - it was just running as the last message it's brain sent its body was "run"

 

Sauer

Edited April 7, 2013 by Sauer020

[kent]

Seen plenty run, once sat next to a mate and he shot a roe buck, good heart shot and it ran 40 yards straight into a three foot wide beech tree, it was obviously just operating on adrenaline as it didn't see the tree - it was just running as the last message it's brain sent its body was "run"

 

Sauer

Correct, anything in their path and they go straight into it. Eyes being pierced by twigs are also common in running dead animals. If a deer runs to the shot without a slightest pause I take it as a sign of a good hit, running after a short pause a miss or a wound is common, running after going down a wound though I have seen one fallow doe get up without a heart then run 30 yds (never spoken to anyone else who has seen this though) The beast in this latter case was at short range and approached immediately following shot without pause

[cocker3]

Have had it with roe a few times i no i was spot on with the shot got a good sound thump back but the buck never reacted as i would expect and took off into woodland some 60 yards off my mate said it was a miss buy once we got the dog out the truck and onto the spot he took a line straight on the patht the roe had taken and i knew then that it was strck 30 yards into the wood under a thick holly bush there he lay if i hadnt had the dog i would never of seen him and the shot was well placed with heart and lungs gone . like you he doesnt hunt by the book but he usually finds them i always have him in the truck when out stalking his nose is way better than mine

Edited April 8, 2013 by cocker3

[MiLisCer]

I now run all mine with pointing collars when searching. If the dog locates out of sight the collar will let you know the dog has stopped and is staying put somewhere.

 

I also use them all the time now when flying the birds, so you know if you have a point in heavy cover.

[Redgum]

I posted earlier in this thread that I had never lost a deer, well I nearly did yesterday evening. I shot a Munty buck from a highseat at last light. It scurried off into the undergrowth crashing and banging, thought I had gut shot it, was using 243 85gr soft points. Walked along the route I thought it had taken with my pocket torch but nothing,couldnt find a blood trial either, carried on further but as only 3 miles from home decide to go and get the dogs.

Walked back to the highseat to pick up my sticks and nearly tripped over the Buck, he was stone dead, shot a tad high but clipped heart and did both lungs, the deer had run 40 paces ( roughly yards). When I walked out to find it its back was facing me so hard to see in the half light, coming back the torch picked it up easily.

[henry d]

Never shot a Muntjac, but shot loads of roe and a few Fallow and Red and had to get the dog on 3 Roe, all dead when found.

 

They are such tough beasts, I remember a Stag I shot at last light, ran a short distance and fell with his head down, gave him 30 seconds and no discernible movement. Got up and took 20 paces across the stubbles and the lad got up and ran 1/4 mile and hurdled a fence before dropping. Top of heart and major arteries were shredded.