Amendments to CPSA Booklets 5 & 7 (Rules/Regs. General/Technical)

[George's Dad]

Has anyone any comments on the amendments to CPSA Booklets 5 & 7? (Can be viewed on main CPSA website under 'News').

From an ESP point of view, the showing of a maximum of 2 pairs on simultaneous pairs is common sense - especially if they can be shot either way round (as a good sim pair should be!), and I like the '10 second rule' - which, if enforced, should help to speed things up a little. (I know of at least one Northern shooter who is going to have a problem with this one!)

Common sense has also kicked in (pun intended) regarding the wearing - or rather NOT wearing of sandals/flip-flops.

Still digesting the rest.

[Will Poon]

I was reading the amendments last night , who the hell thinks of all of this stuff sometimes, anyway I reckon the next reg shoot I'll be wearing my Jesus sandals with a pair of speedos and a tank top with my shooting vest over it

[beretta]

Will that be in cammo print will?

[Son Of Potter]

In my opinion the 10 second rule is daft, as if a ref is going to time exactly 10 seconds!! I think this is a case of common sense prevails on that one!! ( I think I know which northern shooter you mean though and you're right about it causing a problem with him/her)

[George's Dad]

In my opinion the 10 second rule is daft, as if a ref is going to time exactly 10 seconds!! I think this is a case of common sense prevails on that one!! ( I think I know which northern shooter you mean though and you're right about it causing a problem with him/her)

No names, no pack drill as we used to say in the Tufty Club! I can't see anyone but the most bloody-minded ref pinging anyone for taking too long, but at least now there is more power to the elbow to stop the shufflers,dry-mounters, feet twitchers, trouser-hitchers, and they can be told to JUST GET ON WITH IT!

[Son Of Potter]

No names, no pack drill as we used to say in the Tufty Club! I can't see anyone but the most bloody-minded ref pinging anyone for taking too long, but at least now there is more power to the elbow to stop the shufflers,dry-mounters, feet twitchers, trouser-hitchers, and they can be told to JUST GET ON WITH IT!

 

 

ha ha, very true!

[George's Dad]

I was reading the amendments last night , who the hell thinks of all of this stuff sometimes, anyway I reckon the next reg shoot I'll be wearing my Jesus sandals with a pair of speedos and a tank top with my shooting vest over it

...... just make sure they are clean, not ripped or torn, and not military spec! Just had a thought, speedos(?) - what about growing a dodgy moustache as well!

[Frenchieboy]

I referee shoots at Worsley and I have to admit that this 10 secinds rule would be difficult to enforce - even if a referee wanted to. What are we expected to do, carry and use a stop watch for every bird called for? I think not, surely us referees have enough to contend with in order to make sure that the shoot runs efficiently and fairly.

Common sense has to prevail and if a referee thinks a shooter is taking a little long to call for a bird then a quiet and private word with the shooter should suffice!

[Son Of Potter]

I referee shoots at Worsley and I have to admit that this 10 secinds rule would be difficult to enforce - even if a referee wanted to. What are we expected to do, carry and use a stop watch for every bird called for? I think not, surely us referees have enough to contend with in order to make sure that the shoot runs efficiently and fairly.

Common sense has to prevail and if a referee thinks a shooter is taking a little long to call for a bird then a quiet and private word with the shooter should suffice!

Couldn't agree more Frenchieboy!

 

Common sense should be used in majority of issue's as a ref!

 

IE, Young lad/girl who you can clearly see is a beginner (more losses on card than kills) and there dad/carer./groomer gives them a bit of coaching, then so be it, Its not gaining them an advantage in the competition!

The only one that can't be forgiven really is Ear/Eye protection!

[HDAV]

Why can't I wear sandals......

[bornfree]

Why can't I wear sandals......

No you've got it wrong sandals are compulsory

 

Bornfree

[George's Dad]

Why can't I wear sandals......

Wellies would be OK.

[George's Dad]

I referee shoots at Worsley and I have to admit that this 10 secinds rule would be difficult to enforce - even if a referee wanted to. What are we expected to do, carry and use a stop watch for every bird called for? I think not, surely us referees have enough to contend with in order to make sure that the shoot runs efficiently and fairly.

Common sense has to prevail and if a referee thinks a shooter is taking a little long to call for a bird then a quiet and private word with the shooter should suffice!

You are right Frenchieboy, but also wrong! Let me explain further;

I am a qualified ref and also a regular competition shooter. There is nothing more frustrating when carrying out either role than the following two examples:

1. The guy who hands in his card to the ref (thus indicating that he is present at the stand and wanting to shoot it), he then fannies about chatting to his mate, picking his nose or whatever until the ref calls his name - maybe once, maybe more. He steps into the cage, and then asks to see a target. WHAT? Where has he been, what has he been doing, and hasn't he read the rules (if not, why is he there?). The other shooters are waiting to shoot behind, they are ready, and they just roll their eyes. The cumulative effect (multiply this by 100 entries or more) is that everyone spends longer at the ground than necessary, and then the ground (not chummy-boy) gets a bit of a reputation. You can guess the rest....

2. The other guy who hands his card in as before, but instead he has spent a few minutes watching the clays, sight/mounting with his non-shooting hand, picking his pick-up and 'sweet' spots etc, and then it's his turn to shoot. In the cage, he repeats all of the above, adjusts his glasses/plugs, checks his 'safety' catch, hitches up his pants, wipes his palms on his vest and stares at the ground for a few more seconds getting 'into the zone' and then FINALLY calls 'Pull'. No problem with that you might say, all very noble and professional - but see point 1 about cumulative effect above.

I must confess I don't know the reason behind this rule or rule change, but to me it seems totally sensible and correct. I was always taught that you only step into the cage when you are ready to shoot, know where the targets are coming from, and are 'good to go'. If people don't agree with that, one of us is wrong.

[Catamong]

What I find far more annoying than 1. & 2. above is the guy that gets in the cage with only 8 or 10 shells in his pocket, then gets a "no bird" on the second bird of a pair.

 

He then doesn't have enough shells to complete the stand and either turns around, (often with one still up the spout..!!), and begs a shell from his mates or gets out of the cage, goes back to his bag, starts rummaging around to find more shells and eventually gets back into the cage to shoot his final pair.

 

By all means, let's welcome Newbies into the sport, but please teach them the basics before they enter a competition..!!

 

Cat.

[Churchill]

What I find far more annoying than 1. & 2. above is the guy that gets in the cage with only 8 or 10 shells in his pocket, then gets a "no bird" on the second bird of a pair.

 

He then doesn't have enough shells to complete the stand and either turns around, (often with one still up the spout..!!), and begs a shell from his mates or gets out of the cage, goes back to his bag, starts rummaging around to find more shells and eventually gets back into the cage to shoot his final pair.

 

 

Cat.

I just love waiting for people that despite knowing that they are next to shoot haven't even got their gun out of the slip, its still propped up against a tree 5 yards away.

 

A ten second rule would be very hard to enforce for the shooter who's either too bloody lazy to clean their semi or can't be bothered to use the appropriate ammunition so it fails to cycle and it ends up taking 10 minutes to shoot 5 pairs, which they end up shooting as singles.

[100milesaway]

If you havn't seen the targets on a simultaneous pair ,i have always thought that the rule needed ammending so that we could see 2 pairs, it will save me asking the ref which one most people have been taking first.I put this to the committee some ten years ago but never got a response.. So somethings are worth waiting for. from Auntie.

Why can't I wear sandals......

I think the original wording in the rules was" No derelect footwear" Brilliant. from Auntie.

[HDAV]

Derelect footwear?

[George's Dad]

What I find far more annoying than 1. & 2. above is the guy that gets in the cage with only 8 or 10 shells in his pocket, then gets a "no bird" on the second bird of a pair.

 

He then doesn't have enough shells to complete the stand and either turns around, (often with one still up the spout..!!), and begs a shell from his mates or gets out of the cage, goes back to his bag, starts rummaging around to find more shells and eventually gets back into the cage to shoot his final pair.

 

By all means, let's welcome Newbies into the sport, but please teach them the basics before they enter a competition..!!

 

Cat.

Absolutely right on that! Rules can be a pain sometimes, but anything that helps to get a competition moving along at a decent lick has to be welcomed. The 'newbie' thing might be a whole different ball-game (and thread).

[George's Dad]

I just love waiting for people that despite knowing that they are next to shoot haven't even got their gun out of the slip, its still propped up against a tree 5 yards away.

 

A ten second rule would be very hard to enforce for the shooter who's either too bloody lazy to clean their semi or can't be bothered to use the appropriate ammunition so it fails to cycle and it ends up taking 10 minutes to shoot 5 pairs, which they end up shooting as singles.

Again, I agree. There's a certain referee who you find at quite a few of the East Midlands grounds who announces the name of the person to shoot, but also the name of the shooter who follows, and then tells the NEXT shooter after that to 'get ready'. Simple really, and if all refs adopted this, it would stop the 'tree proppers'. Don't know what you can do about the dirty hedge-stake though - short of a weapons inspection before competition starts (that was tongue in cheek by the way).

[hillmouse]

The 10 second rule gives the Referee a bit of back up when reminding a tardy shooter to get on with it. It has applied in other disiplines for a while now and I have never seen it used pedantically but it can offer "encouragement" to those of a more deliberate set up style.

 

Rule 7-00 Viewing Point.......from a position OUTSIDE the stand. Like where everybody else saw theirs from while they were waiting to shoot and thinking about the job ahead

 

I would of added a rule disqualifying anyone attempting to hand cards to a ref. whilst he is scoring a stand.

[Wildfowler12]

 

I would of added a rule disqualifying anyone attempting to hand cards to a ref. whilst he is scoring a stand.

YES!! I'm with you on that. As a ref, the only thing I find more annoying than this is when people hand cards in, I call a shooter up to the stand, and give the following shooter a heads up that he's next. Only to hear... Hang on a minute, the cards are in the wrong order, it's supposed to be X Y Z.

[Azzurri]

...... just make sure they are clean, not ripped or torn, and not military spec! Just had a thought, speedos(?) - what about growing a dodgy moustache as well!

And walking along with a glass of Southern Comfort in your hand...

[Churchill]

YES!! I'm with you on that. As a ref, the only thing I find more annoying than this is when people hand cards in, I call a shooter up to the stand, and give the following shooter a heads up that he's next. Only to hear... Hang on a minute, the cards are in the wrong order, it's supposed to be X Y Z.

I'm kinda with you on that, and also handing cards to the ref while he's scoring. I've tried the polite thing of standing back waiting my turn with cards in hand only to see another group barge past and hand their cards into the ref. I now stand behind the ref with cards in hand and block anyone trying to put cards in until the ref has finished scoring that group, and only then will i hand my squads cards to the ref ( in the right order)

[Frenchieboy]

Again, I agree. There's a certain referee who you find at quite a few of the East Midlands grounds who announces the name of the person to shoot, but also the name of the shooter who follows, and then tells the NEXT shooter after that to 'get ready'. Simple really, and if all refs adopted this, it would stop the 'tree proppers'. Don't know what you can do about the dirty hedge-stake though - short of a weapons inspection before competition starts (that was tongue in cheek by the way).

This is what us referees at Worsley have been told to do. That way you can save time and if the next shooter isn't ready then it is his fault and he will get told about it! We will call the shooters name out and if he isn't there ready in 10 seconds we will call him again. If he still hasn't get there ready to start shooting he will get one more call after 30 seconds in total. The rules are clear, three calls in thirty seconds - If he hasn't entered the stand in that 30 seconds you are entitled to tell him he has missed his shooting position and mark his card as "Absent"!

As for the ten second rule, I agree with it in order to keep the shoot running smoothly. However, it is not always going to be easy to enforce without causing "tension" between the shooter and the referee!

With regards to "Catamong's comment again the rules are clear and should be known by all CPSA Shooters. You must have sufficient cartridges in your posession before you enter the trap!

I am refereeing a competition at Worsley today for the Police Shoot. They are not going to get much leeway and the rules will be enforced "to the letter" I can tell you - In fact if my old FEO (Who could be a real pain in the back side at times) is there he had better watch out for any "infringements of the rules" as I will certainly come down on him like a ton of bricks dropped from a great hieght!

Edited May 3, 2013 by Frenchieboy

[paulos]

This is what us referees at Worsley have been told to do. That way you can save time and if the next shooter isn't ready then it is his fault and he will get told about it! We will call the shooters name out and if he isn't there ready in 10 seconds we will call him again. If he still hasn't get there ready to start shooting he will get one more call after 30 seconds in total. The rules are clear, three calls in thirty seconds - If he hasn't entered the stand in that 30 seconds you are entitled to tell him he has missed his shooting position and mark his card as "Absent"!

As for the ten second rule, I agree with it in order to keep the shoot running smoothly. However, it is not always going to be easy to enforce without causing "tension" between the shooter and the referee!

With regards to "Catamong's comment again the rules are clear and should be known by all CPSA Shooters. You must have sufficient cartridges in your posession before you enter the trap!

I am refereeing a competition at Worsley today for the Police Shoot. They are not going to get much leeway and the rules will be enforced "to the letter" I can tell you - In fact if my old FEO (Who could be a real pain in the back side at times) is there he had better watch out for any "infringements of the rules" as I will certainly come down on him like a ton of bricks dropped from a great hieght!

Sounds dangerous...