UKIP follow on thread

[castletyne]

 

Absolutely, fancy a discussion on cheap and costly grace or kenosis?

No thank you

[henry d]

How about one on deceit? You know, like if someone posted something that is supposed to be by an eminent Doctor and is not at all, that would be deceit would it not?

 

It is n`t worth saying "So what, I think many will find what is written quite accurate" because the premise was that it was accurate and it was not so either it is deceit or it is a racist rant that is not worthy of the space given to it.

 

What is your take on it as it stands? Please do not just say that you think it accurate, because that will be easily shot down as it is inaccurate.

[al4x]

Is being blinkered the same as being racist though HD

[castletyne]

How about one on deceit? You know, like if someone posted something that is supposed to be by an eminent Doctor and is not at all, that would be deceit would it not?

 

It is n`t worth saying "So what, I think many will find what is written quite accurate" because the premise was that it was accurate and it was not so either it is deceit or it is a racist rant that is not worthy of the space given to it.

 

What is your take on it as it stands? Please do not just say that you think it accurate, because that will be easily shot down as it is inaccurate.

Ok its a load of **** and not one bit of it has any accuracy

 

I'm going to agree with you immagration and the Muslim faith is Is a wonderfull thing

 

This country has hugely benefited from both and there's nothing wrong with either

[al4x]

I quite like the corner shop at the end of the road and having a curry on a saturday night

[FalconFN]

I quite like the corner shop at the end of the road and having a curry on a saturday night

Communist.

[henry d]

Ok its a load of **** and not one bit of it has any accuracy Thanks I appreciate your honesty.

 

I'm going to agree with you immagration and the Muslim faith is Is a wonderfull thing That is not what I said.

 

This country has hugely benefited from both and there's nothing wrong with either Ditto.

 

Is being blinkered the same as being racist though HD

 

In this case I think so, unless his replies above have led him to reflect on what he posted and are all honest.

[pegasus bridge]

I think there are two distinct concerns under the immigration banner, firstly the implications of eu movements, from poorer countries resulting in pressure on various infrastructure and public services. And secondly the increasing amount of integration issues from the Muslim communities, both absolutely valid concerns IMHO .

 

Any criticism of Muslim actions tends to attract the label of islamphobia from those keen to suppress and stigmatise any criticism of Islam , which only serves to further frustration of the wider community when issues are going unchecked. I think the key to solve this must sit with the Muslim community themselves.

 

It is interesting to note the lack of a phobia of the Sikh community, but then I guess the Sikh community don't have members on tv every other week spouting bile, intolerance and hatred. Hmm. Coincidence? I think not.

[al4x]

I think Pegasus the reasoning for Sikhs not coming in for any stick is the people concentrating on waving the stick can't tell the difference so they all get bundled in together in the muslin camp

[pegasus bridge]

I think Pegasus the reasoning for Sikhs not coming in for any stick is the people concentrating on waving the stick can't tell the difference so they all get bundled in together in the muslin camp

I would agree to a point that this is true for those who hold prejudice based on skin colour, but I honestly believe that an increasing majority are becoming frustrated with the Muslim community specifically, and are more than able to differentiate between the two. Again, I think to reduce those with concerns to the minority of people with a prejudice based on skin colour is wrong, and will ultimately lead to further issues if not dealt with.

[al4x]

the thing is though they are getting upset with about 5 members of the muslim community who are the ones preaching issues. We have issues near here in Luton and every time there is a problem the local leaders speak out and distance the community from them in an effort to show it for what it is. Yes they have problems with the preaching of hatred but they sure aren't alone in that when we have our own far right and PW nazi contingent doing the same from the opposite side.

[castletyne]

There we go again question something and your a racist nazi

 

The police have a problem with the Muslim communities closing ranks when something happens

[henry d]

I think the key to solve this must sit with the Muslim community themselves.

 

Spot on, as even if we deported every last Muslim then we still have the possibility of radicalisation via the tinterweb, much like the radicals Alex mentions above who are given lies and half-truths and may accept them as genuine.

Not an easy one to solve but dialogue is better than a get rid attitude.

[pegasus bridge]

the thing is though they are getting upset with about 5 members of the muslim community who are the ones preaching issues. We have issues near here in Luton and every time there is a problem the local leaders speak out and distance the community from them in an effort to show it for what it is. Yes they have problems with the preaching of hatred but they sure aren't alone in that when we have our own far right and PW nazi contingent doing the same from the opposite side.

I'm not even half convinced on this point, time and time again examples of intolerance are seemingly tolerated within the Muslim communities and it a only when it is brought to a head that 'community leaders' put any real effort to distance themselves.

 

A good example recently in derby. Three were convicted for handing out leaflets in the mosque calling for gays to be killed, and quoting the Koran. How did they get caught you ask? Was it the community at the mosque ? No, they happened to have some leaflets left which they decided to put through letterboxes on the local streets. One was a gay man, who understandably took exception to it.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-16656679

[al4x]

I'm not sure how that one sits its something our own religion has fairly strong views on though its being watered down all the time by the liberal side, which almost makes it quite ironic that the view isn't that far away from many people who aren't muslim. ok death may be a little strong but still

[henry d]

There we go again question something and your a racist nazi Nah, questioning is good, just do it both ways. Question the emails you get, if they are untrue then they must have a nefarious intent.

 

The police have a problem with the Muslim communities closing ranks when something happens Much like the police and Damilola Taylor?

[pegasus bridge]

 

I'm not sure how that one sits its something our own religion has fairly strong views on though its being watered down all the time by the liberal side, which almost makes it quite ironic that the view isn't that far away from many people who aren't muslim. ok death may be a little strong but still

I agree, but IMHO religion in our society is perhaps where it should be, yes it was part of our history, culture and law, but now very much takes a back seat. I attended church until the age of 14 every Sunday and don't recall anything even coming close to this sort of disgusting intolerance. I occasionally go now with my family and still don't see this. I don't see ANY all domineering religion, interpreted literally in having a positive place in developed society. And those who attempt to embrace this will always be at odds to those with different culture or beliefs.

Edited May 8, 2013 by pegasus bridge

[al4x]

I agree, but IMHO religion in our society is perhaps where it should be, yes it was part of our history, culture and law, but now very much takes a back seat. I attended church until the age of 14 every Sunday and don't recall anything even coming close to this sort of disgusting intolerance. I occasionally go now with my family and still don't see this. I don't see ANY all domineering religion, interpreted literally in having a positive place in developed society.

 

over the years I have had Sikh and muslim neighbours and there are things we could learn, from morals and family values they are very traditional and do set an example, so though it is partly due to their religion its a very small minority who use the extreme religious side to try and start wars and incite hatred. On that front we have our own who are just as bad

[Penelope]

Similar to recent events in East London, with muslim youths going around telling girls in shorts skirts, guys drinking a can of beer, etc that it is a muslim area and they are not wanted/tolerated wearing or doing what they do.

Didn't se the comunity elders coming out against it until the incidents were brought to the attention of the media.

 

I'm not even half convinced on this point, time and time again examples of intolerance are seemingly tolerated within the Muslim communities and it a only when it is brought to a head that 'community leaders' put any real effort to distance themselves.

A good example recently in derby. Three were convicted for handing out leaflets in the mosque calling for gays to be killed, and quoting the Koran. How did they get caught you ask? Was it the community at the mosque ? No, they happened to have some leaflets left which they decided to put through letterboxes on the local streets. One was a gay man, who understandably took exception to it.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-16656679

[castletyne]

 

 

 

There we go again question something and your a racist nazi Nah, questioning is good, just do it both ways. Question the emails you get, if they are untrue then they must have a nefarious intent.

 

The police have a problem with the Muslim communities closing ranks when something happens Much like the police and Damilola Taylor?

Its not good thing in this country if you question it you are labeled a racist

 

apart from the author what parts are way of the mark

Edited May 8, 2013 by castletyne

[kdubya]

over the years I have had Sikh and muslim neighbours and there are things we could learn, from morals and family values they are very traditional and do set an example, so though it is partly due to their religion its a very small minority who use the extreme religious side to try and start wars and incite hatred. On that front we have our own who are just as bad

I must have missed the christian suicide bombers bit or the beheading of innocents with a penknife in the name of god,(have searched youtube for christian beheads muslim in the name of Christ) maybe I also missed the general shout of lesser beings (kaffir) and the call to exterminate them as non christian believers.

 

KW

Edited May 8, 2013 by kdubya

[al4x]

I must have missed the christian suicide bombers bit or the beheading of innocents with a penknife in the name of god,(have searched youtube for christian beheads muslim in the name of Christ) maybe I also missed the general shout of lesser beings (kaffir) and the call to exterminate them as non christian believers.

 

KW

 

try this one for starters

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10033881/Racist-fear-in-Birmingham-murder-of-Muslim-grandfather.html

[beeredup]

well if the rest of the country follows the trend of this poll the tories and labour are in the excrement!!!

[al4x]

well if the rest of the country follows the trend of this poll the tories and labour are in the excrement!!!

 

 

you can add everyone else to the list as one thing is for certain UKIP couldn't run the proverbial **** up in a brewery

[pegasus bridge]

try this one for starters

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10033881/Racist-fear-in-Birmingham-murder-of-Muslim-grandfather.html

 

terrible crime, and i hope the perpetrators are caught and punished. but at the moment it is speculation as to the motive; i presume this is the best you have for demonstrating your point?

Edited May 8, 2013 by pegasus bridge