955i Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 rite, so it doesn't matter if your selling 20, or 2000 a month then??you still need to attend the course?? Am I missing something? As far as I am aware pigeon aren't game so therefore the course shouldn't be required no matter how many you sell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaunda Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 Thanks for replies so far.I have had a go through the ' food.gov - gen guide ' as quoted by massify in his POST Number 6 and can find nothing that defines woodpigeons as ' game ',or game ' to include woodpigeons'.On that basis 9551 in the post above is correct. Having said that,this Government Document,in an index laying out a form on which returns of game are required to be made, has a column for ' Pigeons '..If they are not 'game ' then why include this ? All we want to know is ' are woodpigeons included in this legislation or not '? Surely BASC,with all its' recources,to which we contribute mightily,can give us a ' YES or NO ' 'Let there be Light ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 rite, so it doesn't matter if your selling 20, or 2000 a month then??you still need to attend the course?? He tried that one on me last year and the year before. No as their not game, i can always take them elsewhere. 'no, dont worry' he still takes them. 25/28 frozen/fresh. yes it does my head in. he gave me 35p end of last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickB65 Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Although Pigeon are not GAME as by definition they are still a food gorup that is part of the GAME category and as such under the same controls. In talking to my local gamekeeper Clive it seems for a while the game dealers were not fussed about pigeons but now due to the popularity of GAME in London and some top restraunts there is a need to have all the paperwork in place and for them to be following the rules. some still may accept the odd batch without the license but more and more will demand certification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning n spaniel Posted May 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 carnt see many people who don't shoot that many a year paying £120 to be able to sell say 500 birds a year, But what I can see happening is a lot being dumped in the hedge to feed mr fox, then in no time at all the place will be over fun with foxes , but on the other side of the coin, if the place is over run with foxes, mr camaron and his merry men might just do the rite thing and lift the hunting with dogs ban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 i looked into all this last year as its a minefield....and i cant be bothered to look at it all again now but will explain what i found out soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/draftwildgameguide.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 carnt see many people who don't shoot that many a year paying £120 to be able to sell say 500 birds a year, But what I can see happening is a lot being dumped in the hedge to feed mr fox, then in no time at all the place will be over fun with foxes , but on the other side of the coin, if the place is over run with foxes, mr camaron and his merry men might just do the rite thing and lift the hunting with dogs ban I don't think that if that was the case that the fox population would suddenly rise. I wouldn't have thought that many foxes starve to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning n spaniel Posted May 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) I don't think that if that was the case that the fox population would suddenly rise. I wouldn't have thought that many foxes starve to death. so lots of shot pigeons layed in hedges wouldn't in courage foxes??? Edited May 25, 2013 by browning n spaniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickB65 Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Wow that was some reading..... I have found a butcher who will take a "few" birds off me in exchange for some other meats but this is in exchange and "few" meaning less than 20. If you intend to supply a regular amount to a game dealer, butcher, pub or other establishment then you need a license. Me, what I do not use, I can not give away to friends I give to local animal charities that will take them and failing that they are "landfill". A waste... true but I am asked to control numbers of pests to protect the fields not to create a food supply. as long as the numbers of pests reduce to a decent level I am doing my job. It is a shame I agree and a waste but I also understand why as some game I have been offered in the past has been days old, "rank" and in my opinion not fit for human consumption. With the "horse" meat scandal are we really surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickB65 Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 So, if yo provide a pub, restaurant or other processor of food which will provide the final product on their premises to their clients then you can sell the food to them as long as the quantity is small and they adapt their FBO registration and they have a separate area for the prep. Saying that few businesses can be bothered with this as it add so much more paperwork for them and cost..... So, can we prep the birds before selling them.... NO - to do this you need to be licensed but in another category which is even more costly and requires a lot of paperwork. Guess we will just have to eat lots of yummy Pigeon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 26, 2013 Report Share Posted May 26, 2013 (edited) so lots of shot pigeons layed in hedges wouldn't in courage foxes??? Of course, dumped pigeons will attract foxes and other vermin, but this wouldn't mean anywhere would be more 'overrun' with them. Wow that was some reading..... I have found a butcher who will take a "few" birds off me in exchange for some other meats but this is in exchange and "few" meaning less than 20. If you intend to supply a regular amount to a game dealer, butcher, pub or other establishment then you need a license. Me, what I do not use, I can not give away to friends I give to local animal charities that will take them and failing that they are "landfill". A waste... true but I am asked to control numbers of pests to protect the fields not to create a food supply. as long as the numbers of pests reduce to a decent level I am doing my job. It is a shame I agree and a waste but I also understand why as some game I have been offered in the past has been days old, "rank" and in my opinion not fit for human consumption. With the "horse" meat scandal are we really surprised? In my opinion, if you can't find a use for the pigeons or can't sell them, then you shouldn't shoot them. Edited May 26, 2013 by motty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 26, 2013 Report Share Posted May 26, 2013 It grieves me to waste stuff I've shot but the primary purpose is to protect the farmers crop and get some sport in the process. Everything else is secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey10765666 Posted May 26, 2013 Report Share Posted May 26, 2013 Wow that was some reading..... I have found a butcher who will take a "few" birds off me in exchange for some other meats but this is in exchange and "few" meaning less than 20. If you intend to supply a regular amount to a game dealer, butcher, pub or other establishment then you need a license. Me, what I do not use, I can not give away to friends I give to local animal charities that will take them and failing that they are "landfill". A waste... true but I am asked to control numbers of pests to protect the fields not to create a food supply. as long as the numbers of pests reduce to a decent level I am doing my job. It is a shame I agree and a waste but I also understand why as some game I have been offered in the past has been days old, "rank" and in my opinion not fit for human consumption. With the "horse" meat scandal are we really surprised? It grieves me to waste stuff I've shot but the primary purpose is to protect the farmers crop and get some sport in the process. Everything else is secondary. Im with these two Oi motty we cant all be like you, you try to come over like your some kind of marry Poppins practically perfect in every way, yea righto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickB65 Posted May 26, 2013 Report Share Posted May 26, 2013 In principal I agree with Motty as I hate killing something I am not going to eat or I can not find someone to consume but when it comes to Pigeons and the farmers fields ten the primary objective is protection. I wont "dump" the pigeons anywhere but dispose of them sensibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning n spaniel Posted May 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2013 (edited) Im with these two Oi motty we cant all be like you, you try to come over like your some kind of marry Poppins practically perfect in every way, yea righto. ''a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down'' :lol: Edited May 26, 2013 by browning n spaniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning n spaniel Posted May 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2013 In principal I agree with Motty as I hate killing something I am not going to eat or I can not find someone to consume but when it comes to Pigeons and the farmers fields ten the primary objective is protection. I wont "dump" the pigeons anywhere but dispose of them sensibly. so how would you dispose pigeons sensibly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl1959 Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 In the main wood pigeon shooting is done to control the number of pigeons destorying the farmers crops. My primary job is to kill the pigeons in the most effective and legal manner - that is why the farmer allows me on his land. Secondly I love to eat pigeon so it is a good source of food and lastly it could be an income to off-set the cost of shooting - if I could shoot enough. However, shooting the pigeons or scaring them off is the main priority. Would the farmer be happy if you shot six and called it a day because you could not eat, give away or freeze any more? I think he would be a little miffed to say the least. I have to be honest £120 is a lot of money and I am not 100% certain it is necessary as I have never been asked for one. Maybe the volumes you are selling is making you a primary supplier and therfore under a different category? I have posted the question to the BASC for their input. its crop protection! the meat is a bonus (very nice too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickB65 Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 How would I dispose of them sensibly? Well I am lucky in that one farmer has a bonfire almost all of the time as he also has a logging business as well so there is always some sort of fire going. I also have approached a few animal re-homing serices and as long as the meat is butchered and boned they are happy to take them. There is also a ferret sanctuary near me so they will take a few. The rest will be bagged in a black bin bag and taken down the tip and put into household waste and landfill. I refuse to jump dump bodies as this gives a bad opinion of me to the farmer and to any walker who may come across them. We will sooner e about how bad we are and uncaring. Luckily, my bags to date are small and I can find homes for most of them but when the pigeons come out to play again I have a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocknee Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 I must say I totally agree with motty and wouldn't shoot pigeons if they were going to be dumped, but I am fortunate that one of my best mates is a game dealer and takes all my pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickB65 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 Another update from the BASC and a document to help..... Click on this link to get the BASC FOOD LEAFLET which explains the why and gives a simple chart as to when it applies and what to do. They also sent some contacts for game dealers in the Cmabridshire area that would be willing to assist where they can (not sure what that means til I contact them). LINK - http://www.basc.org.uk/en/utilities/document-summary.cfm/docid/3876FE60-5B00-431B-91CF88023A7055FC Hope this helps...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 In terms of disposal I think there was a thread on here about carcasses to dog onwers feeding their dogs a BARF diet. I'm sure money would change hands via an ad in your local shop/vets.....given the price of premium processed dog foods. Bet you'd get more than 25p......I think £2 a bunnie was mentioned so £1 a woodie? You'd have to advise owners about bones and such but that's just a quick chat. What do you reckon....would it be a viable alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 A question to the people that say they don't shoot pigeons unless they are going to be eaten. Do you shoot foxes, rooks, crows, jackdaws, magpies and rats ? If so, do you eat them ? I sell all the pigeons I shoot, I have not been on a £120 course and I haven't been asked for any hunters number, or certificate. The day that is required I will have to decide what to do. The alternatives are , do the course, or give away birds and then bury the rest as I do with shot foxes, rooks, crows,jackdaws, magpies, rats, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 In terms of disposal I think there was a thread on here about carcasses to dog onwers feeding their dogs a BARF diet. I'm sure money would change hands via an ad in your local shop/vets.....given the price of premium processed dog foods. Bet you'd get more than 25p......I think £2 a bunnie was mentioned so £1 a woodie? You'd have to advise owners about bones and such but that's just a quick chat. What do you reckon....would it be a viable alternative? I feed my dog on the Barf diet, but do not feed her anything shot with lead (apart from rifle shot rabbits), I suspect other dog owners would have the same concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Threads like this must be a godsend to anti's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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