Convictions to be wiped

[Sprackles]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-05-29/criminal-records-of-thousands-to-be-wiped-clean-today/

 

 

I wonder if this will apply to SGC and FAC applications.

Apparently if you have only one conviction of a certain type on your record with no reoffending, it will be cleared after so many years.

[Kes]

I doubt it - maybe the FEO's will take a different view of past offences but the Guidelines state that 'no conviction is ever spent' for the purposes of Firearms Law.

Personally I have no problem with them knowing my full history in that respect - 2 speeding tickets isnt going to excite anyone, even if they are cleared, as suggested, after a decade.

Its perhaps more a question of telling the truth and that means 'everything' as we know, when you apply for an FAC or SGC.

[Sprackles]

Not an issue for me either although I do question the reasoning behind having to declare everything as the Police have full knowledge of your past anyway without the need to remind them....they are not going to forget now are they.

My personal view on the requirement to disclose is that it's a form of deterrent whereby someone with a past may be put off from applying as they didnt want to rake over old coals by showing what might be long forgotten history to their referee/s.

 

Also meant to add, this came into force today so the guidelines may well have to be amended if it does apply.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Sprackles

[Sprackles]

One for David Basc I reckon..

[Kes]

I agree but how else do you know if someone is telling the truth and 'missing out bits of personal history' is a sure way to know the type of character you are dealing with perhaps?

[al4x]

 

My personal view on the requirement to disclose is that it's a form of deterrent whereby someone with a past may be put off from applying as they didnt want to rake over old coals by showing what might be long forgotten history to their referee/s.

 

 

 

you don't show anything to your referees at the moment, I have no idea if firearms will have a different file on you but really you'd still need to mention everything anyway

[Sprackles]

I agree but how else do you know if someone is telling the truth and 'missing out bits of personal history' is a sure way to know the type of character you are dealing with perhaps?

In that scenario I can see where you are coming from but in the new legislation, it does not apply to serial offenders, their records will not change. Someone with a single specified offence on the other hand..the Courts decision was that a single event should not blight someone's future for a lifetime.

I don't know what the specified offences are as yet though, the Home Office is supposed to have released details.

 

 

you don't show anything to your referees at the moment, I have no idea if firearms will have a different file on you but really you'd still need to mention everything anyway

Your referee has to sign that the details you have given are correct and that includes details of your convictions.

[David BASC]

You still have to declare all convictions even those considered 'spent' if you ‘forget’ to mention convictions and the licencing team find out they will almost always take a very dim view!

[Rupert]

I wonder if this will apply to insurance premiums.

[Scully]

On first applying for my FAC ( had FAC before SGC) I went down to my local police station to ask how many convictions I had and the relevant dates(was a bit daft in my early years) so I could fill in application forms accurately,and was more than a little surprised to find I only had two on record. Have no idea why.

[ordnance]

I can't see it making any difference here as you have to declare all convictions spent or not.

 

Have you ever been convicted or received an official police caution for any offence, including motoring offences?

No Yes

If ‘Yes’, give details below. Enter every conviction

probation order, absolute/conditional discharge, as well as those resulting in a fine or imprisonment.

Details of Spent Convictions must also be given. (Rehabilitation of Offenders (Exceptions) Order Northern Ireland 1979)

 

[Sprackles]

You still have to declare all convictions even those considered 'spent' if you ‘forget’ to mention convictions and the licencing team find out they will almost always take a very dim view!

I am aware that currently all must be revealed...I was just wondering in the light of what I have read today, where that leaves people with FAC/SGC applications, remembering that only those with one conviction will have their records purged, specified offences only. and effective from today.

If the High Court has ruled that such a conviction can blight a persons future and should be wiped and indeed it is wiped then what would you declare.

I suppose thinking logically, if you fall into that bracket then a Subject Access Request would reveal all.

I was just curious as to what it would apply to as I am also involved in Aviation and know for a full airside pass you also have to have these CRB checks....will it also apply ?

The other thing that I remember concerning these checks was that people coming from abroad who applied would have apparent clean records as in a lot of other EU countries,records are expunged after so many years automatically. Not a level playing field at all for the native Brits.

 

I can't see it making any difference here as you have to declare all convictions spent or not.

 

I know but these one offs will be removed...not spent...see where I am coming from ?

I think my point is being missed by a lot of people.

[browning123]

You still have to declare all convictions even those considered 'spent' if you ‘forget’ to mention convictions and the licencing team find out they will almost always take a very dim view!

Do you have to declare cautions?

[welsh1]

You still have to declare all convictions even those considered 'spent' if you ‘forget’ to mention convictions and the licencing team find out they will almost always take a very dim view!

Doesn't anyone just put "please check all police records" on their forms?

[David BASC]

Cautions are not convictions - they are an admission of guilt, but do not have to be declared. Conditional or absolute discharges do.

 

If this is a renewal, then the form only asks you to declare convictions since your last application. If none, write “None” or "None since last renewal", as appropriate. If you have ANY convictions at ANY time, including parking or speeding, tick the “Yes” box.

[JonathanL]

I am aware that currently all must be revealed...I was just wondering in the light of what I have read today, where that leaves people with FAC/SGC applications, remembering that only those with one conviction will have their records purged, specified offences only. and effective from today.

 

You still have to declare it as you have been convicted. Even if every record of it has been erased it doesn't change the fact that you were convicted.

 

J.

 

Do you have to declare cautions?

 

No.

 

J.

 

Doesn't anyone just put "please check all police records" on their forms?

 

You shouldn't as that is not answering the question. You must declare what you are asked to declare.

 

J.

[Breastman]

Doesn't anyone just put "please check all police records" on their forms?

If i was dealing with that application it'd be going straight to the bottom of the pile. If you can't be bothered to supply the required info, i wouldn't be bothered about geting your application through quickly

[PaulieWalnuts]

If i was dealing with that application it'd be going straight to the bottom of the pile. If you can't be bothered to supply the required info, i wouldn't be bothered about geting your application through quickly

 

Well I'd say that would be fairly draconian. One may not remember the exact details, particularly if they were 15/20 years ago. Rest assured the police dont just 'take your word for it', they do check the PNC. Really they are looking for honesty here, so long as you answer to the best of your knowledge and provide a covering letter to explain if you dont have all the details/dates etc then that is satisfactory.

[Breastman]

 

Well I'd say that would be fairly draconian. One may not remember the exact details, particularly if they were 15/20 years ago. Rest assured the police dont just 'take your word for it', they do check the PNC. Really they are looking for honesty here, so long as you answer to the best of your knowledge and provide a covering letter to explain if you dont have all the details/dates etc then that is satisfactory.

 

 

Agreed, but "I got a caution for XYZ but i can't remember exactly when" Isn't the same as "Please check all police records" which reads to me as, "Do it yourself!"

[PaulieWalnuts]

My understanding is it is only the records of non serious crimes that will be purged and only in instances where there is only one conviction. Repeat offenders will not benefit from the change in legislation. Further, if you are an individual with one minor conviction that has since become been spent, the sentence you received at the time is unlikely to prohibit you from firearms ownership under the terms of the firearms licensing act, and one would assume enough time would have lapsed for you to demonstrate to the Police that you are rehabilitated and not a danger to the public. An FEO is likely to take a dim view of someone that has decided not to declare their solitary conviction on the basis of "I thought it would have been deleted under the terms of the new legislation" as it hardly smacks of honesty and genuine remorse. In my view you are far more likely to curry favour if you are open and honest with your application. If in the unlikely event an application was declined as a result of a minor spent conviction and that individual had not since come to the notice of the police, i would say they would have pretty good grounds for appeal.

[PaulieWalnuts]

Agreed, but "I got a caution for XYZ but i can't remember exactly when" Isn't the same as "Please check all police records" which reads to me as, "Do it yourself!"

 

Good point

[Scully]

One may not remember the exact details, particularly if they were 15/20 years ago.

Which was exactly why I went down to the local to enquire about details,dates etc.They didn't have any records apart from two convictions, so I didn't put any others down on my initial application.

If I recall, declaration of convictions applies to first-time applications rather than renewals.

[PaulieWalnuts]

Oh and also, I believe these convictions will simply no longer be divulged on CRB checks for job applications. I am unclear as to whether Police will have to wipe records from the Police National Computer all together, as they could quite rightly argue that it is in the public interest that they retain this information, even if its only the Police that have access to it.

[welsh1]

If i was dealing with that application it'd be going straight to the bottom of the pile. If you can't be bothered to supply the required info, i wouldn't be bothered about geting your application through quickly

Funny that because i was advised by my shooting partner at the time to put "please check all police records",he had used that phrase in his application in Wiltshire,i used it in my application in Wales and was not questioned about it.

 

Think about it,they type your name in and all your history is there in depth,no mistakes,no forgetting to disclose anything.

 

It's not a case of not being bothered ,it is more a case of wanting to get it exactly right and not miss anything out.If you are like me and can remember things happening as clear as a bell,but are terrible of being able to tell you which week or even month they happened then this is a common sense track to take.