ollie Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Following on from the thread earlier today http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/250869-lame-dog. My fiance took my 4 year old springer spaniel to the vet tonight and he said her back left leg has 'Ruptured Cranial Cruciate Ligament'. He quoted that it would cost appprox £500 to sort and there is no guarantee she will work again. The dog lives outside and is not house trained, so turning her into a house dog is probably not an option. Has anyone any experience of this injury and whether the treatment will work? The vet said there is a chance it could happen to her other back leg. Now I love this dog to bits as she was my first proper dog, but is it worth going through this very costly treatment for it to possibly happen again. I don't have insurance unfortunately. all advice is welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Just to start this off, I'm not a vet so Apache can give better advice. This suggests to me that her leg has a damaged ligament which supports the knee. This ligament is one of several which retain the knee joint pointing in the correct direction to allow the leg muscles to power the dog foward. A damaged one will throw the leg off alignment and put extra stress on the other ligaments in the knee and joints in the leg -so correction is the only way to put it right. If its ruptured, it depends where as to the effectiveness of the treatment and any damage will make it more likely, not less, that further injury will result - in the same leg and potentially in the other. If it were my dog, and I had no other information, I would worry that the very nature of this dog would mean potential future problems and it would seem unlikely that you could control the erratic behaviour to protect the leg. Not an easy choice but £500 may be the start of a big bill.. If she's not in pain, I'd retire her now and consider the op.whilst sedating her to protect the leg - we have a dog which has a hip ligament problem and he's not 100% but is slowly adjusting. If she's in pain then there are 2 choices, If you love the dog then I think the op and retirement is what I would go for and hope she adjusts to a less hectic life. I wish you the best for any result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Fairly common I think unfortunately. Two stringers I know of and a Rottweiler, only one springer is left he is 8 and lead walked and retired. Not what you wanted to hear I know. Maybe someone will come along with something more positive. All the best with the dog mate feel for you. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Took my Lab to the Vet two years ago favouring a back leg. They told me she had tear in the cruciate but it could possibly repair in time if the dog wasn't exercised for a couple of months. She's fine and had two full seasons since then, it depends on the extent of the injury. Hope you have a successful outcome. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted June 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Just to start this off, I'm not a vet so Apache can give better advice. This suggests to me that her leg has a damaged ligament which supports the knee. This ligament is one of several which retain the knee joint pointing in the correct direction to allow the leg muscles to power the dog foward. A damaged one will throw the leg off alignment and put extra stress on the other ligaments in the knee and joints in the leg -so correction is the only way to put it right. If its ruptured, it depends where as to the effectiveness of the treatment and any damage will make it more likely, not less, that further injury will result - in the same leg and potentially in the other. If it were my dog, and I had no other information, I would worry that the very nature of this dog would mean potential future problems and it would seem unlikely that you could control the erratic behaviour to protect the leg. Not an easy choice but £500 may be the start of a big bill.. If she's not in pain, I'd retire her now and consider the op.whilst sedating her to protect the leg - we have a dog which has a hip ligament problem and he's not 100% but is slowly adjusting. If she's in pain then there are 2 choices, If you love the dog then I think the op and retirement is what I would go for and hope she adjusts to a less hectic life. I wish you the best for any result. The problem I have is that the Vet told me after surgery she would need cage rest for 6-8 weeks, I don't know how I could possibly keep this springer in the one spot for that length of time as she has known nothing else. If she had the surgery and couldn't be kept still then it could get ruptured again and like you said have a bigger bill. I would love to retire her but I don't know how she would take to it. Fairly common I think unfortunately. Two stringers I know of and a Rottweiler, only one springer is left he is 8 and lead walked and retired. Not what you wanted to hear I know. Maybe someone will come along with something more positive. All the best with the dog mate feel for you. Karpman Thanks for the advice. Were the dogs operated on? Took my Lab to the Vet two years ago favouring a back leg. They told me she had tear in the cruciate but it could possibly repair in time if the dog wasn't exercised for a couple of months. She's fine and had two full seasons since then, it depends on the extent of the injury. Hope you have a successful outcome. Bill The dog hasn't whined, yelped or cried since I saw her limping but she is not that type of dog. The vet said she will be in extreme pain at the moment and operating is the only solution. Thanks for the advice guys, keep your opinions coming. It breaks my heart the thought of not getting the dog operated on, but I don't know if I can afford running up a huge vets bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 The rotty wasn't it was next doors other side packed in whilst resting. The springer that is not around anymore was a worker and thought of retiring it did not sit well so was pts. The other springer lives at the back ex working pet dog and is doing well with rest and lead walking. The chappy has two others still working. Chin up bud Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 At £500 it is worth a go, my mates was a complete success but the springer was 10 or so, even so hard to keep still. All you can do is try really it would be hard to pts without trying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 A bit of better news. The sister in law has a good friend who is a vet and she said that she could do it for maximum £250, so it is worth a try. If it doesn't work or gets ruptured again then we can look into pts. I think I will just retire the dog and maybe look into house training her. How hard do you think it would be to house train a 4 year old springer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnFreeman1310 Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 We had to cage rest our pup for 3 weeks after he hurt he knee not as serious as your just a twist but it was really hard for him but it did him wonders and is now back on form so training should start soon. Good luck with the op and hope all goes well John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 How hard do you think it would be to house train a 4 year old springer? Get it a crate & you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 re cage rest - just do it , if you want the dog to recover you must do as directed by the vet . both my dogs legs went , second one just after the 1st had almost fully mended . there was other complications too , screws snap because too small and infection ( i blame the vet for both these ) . then her miniscus snapped and was flapping about so another op was needed , loads of drugs etc anyway nearly £9,000 later she is still here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 A bit of better news. The sister in law has a good friend who is a vet and she said that she could do it for maximum £250, so it is worth a try. If it doesn't work or gets ruptured again then we can look into pts. I think I will just retire the dog and maybe look into house training her. How hard do you think it would be to house train a 4 year old springer? House training will be a suck it and see experience so to speak, try and some dogs will be fine others won't get the hang of it. Operation wise that sounds worth a go, its a sad injury when there is little other option than PTS or possibly amputation if it doesn't work. Its reasonably complicated and not helped by the dogs type or age all you can do is be very careful with exercise and crate and then only lead walk for a while to give it a fighting chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickthemiller Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) Hi My Springer had the operation and he will never be the same so yes he is now a pet and a fantastic pet at that, we had to crate rest him for six weeks, after that it was on a lead for six months and then a gradual return to off lead, the amazing thing is the dog knows his limitations and has learned to take it easy. When x raying the one leg the vet also did the same for the other one, and the news was even worse his left hip joint was nearly wore out, this was then a four year dog, the vet told us that it was only a matter of time before he needed work on the hip, it was heart breaking, we give him pain killers each day and this seems to be helping a lot, but we are not deluding ourselves and know that the first time he shows pain we will have to do the right thing he is constantly monitored by the vet who assures us he is pain free at the moment. The problem was caused by myself letting him work to hard when he was a pup and not giving his bones chance to grow so this should be a warning to others be careful when they are young. The other factor is his size he is the biggest Springer I have seen at 31kgs and not fat, he dwarfs my other two. Sorry for rambling on Mick I would like to add a line about the value of insurance which and is still covering the claim. Edited June 12, 2013 by Mickthemiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted June 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 House training will be a suck it and see experience so to speak, try and some dogs will be fine others won't get the hang of it. Operation wise that sounds worth a go, its a sad injury when there is little other option than PTS or possibly amputation if it doesn't work. Its reasonably complicated and not helped by the dogs type or age all you can do is be very careful with exercise and crate and then only lead walk for a while to give it a fighting chance. Thanks mate, it is worth a try with the house training, she is a smart dog and I'm sure she will take to it ok. re cage rest - just do it , if you want the dog to recover you must do as directed by the vet . both my dogs legs went , second one just after the 1st had almost fully mended . there was other complications too , screws snap because too small and infection ( i blame the vet for both these ) . then her miniscus snapped and was flapping about so another op was needed , loads of drugs etc anyway nearly £9,000 later she is still here Did the dog not go crazy being restricted to the cage rest? I'm glad she has come out the other side, but that is a large chunk of money that I know I couldn't afford. Hi My Springer had the operation and he will never be the same so yes he is now a pet and a fantastic pet at that, we had to crate rest him for six weeks, after that it was on a lead for six months and then a gradual return to off lead, the amazing thing is the dog knows his limitations and has learned to take it easy. When x raying the one leg the vet also did the same for the other one, and the news was even worse his left hip joint was nearly wore out, this was then a four year dog, the vet told us that it was only a matter of time before he needed work on the hip, it was heart breaking, we give him pain killers each day and this seems to be helping a lot, but we are not deluding ourselves and know that the first time he shows pain we will have to do the right thing he is constantly monitored by the vet who assures us he is pain free at the moment. The problem was caused by myself letting him work to hard when he was a pup and not giving his bones chance to grow so this should be a warning to others be careful when they are young. The other factor is his size he is the biggest Springer I have seen at 31kgs and not fat, he dwarfs my other two. Sorry for rambling on Mick The thing is my springer is very small, so the vet was surprised that she was affected so young with this injury. I am going to see another vet on Thursday evening to get a 2nd opinion. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted June 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Took the dog to see a different vet last night. She was walking quite well yesterday, but the vet put her up on the table and really minipulated the leg & told me it is certainly ruptured. By the time I got the dog of the table she wasn't even able to put weight on her leg, during this time the dog didn't make a noise or change her facial expression and the vet commented on what a brave dog she is. Anyway, she is going back into the vets on Monday morning, the vet is going to sedate her so that she can check the leg properly and take an x ray. If it is badly ruptured she will be operated on Monday. So over this weekend we will be getting ready to move the dog inside, as the vet advised to retire her. The prospects of a recovery is good according to the vet because she is so small, she is only 13.5kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 thats good news in a way I know my mates that was done a few years back now has been spot on since so fingers crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 yes mate cage rest was a problem , but just had to do it, only time she came out was on the lead into garden for toilet duties. we started off with medium size cage but went to the XL after a few days gave her chews , kongs etc . we put the cage in the living room at night so she could have plenty of attention , most times someone was home vet prescribe diazapam and propanol to help with keeping her calm , she was also on a lot of tramadol so was fairly relaxed. ask your vet about it , sure they would agree on some temporay sedation , and dont forget it'll have to wear a elizabethan collar for a while so make sure cage is big enough to accomadate that comfortably as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanielboy Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Ollie My springer had that op combined with a knee stabilisation recently. He had 12 weeks of cage rest and limited exercise. He is now back out and nearly fighting fit. I you drop me a pm if be happy to chat with you about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted June 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Ollie My springer had that op combined with a knee stabilisation recently. He had 12 weeks of cage rest and limited exercise. He is now back out and nearly fighting fit. I you drop me a pm if be happy to chat with you about it. Cheers mate. I left her in at the vet this morning to have the op. I think I am going to retire her anyway, maybe take her out a couple of days decoying, because I don't want this to happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanielboy Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 All the best for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeredup Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 All the best i hope all goes well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Well Dawn got operated on Monday afternoon and had to stay at the vets last night. Got her home today. The vet said the op went well but she wants her to stay in the cage for at least 2 weeks and only going to the toilet while on the lead. Then after 8 weeks we have to start her rebillitation.The only problem is I am getting married in 8 weeks, but I will have to get my dad to look after her and start her rebillitation. Thanks for the advice guys, I am really glad I went ahead with the op and didn't put her to sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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