Beaters Pay and HMRC

[Paul223]

Have we come to a breakdown as to what can and cannot be done with this as yet, get paid and claim for clothing etc type scenarios

[Cockerman59]

I am just checking as I am still a little confused

I am employed full time and beat during my days off and at weekends

So

I get paid £25

Pay £10 tax (40%)

Fuel £20

So my earning for the day is - £5, is that correct

Also being already employed can I claim for anything, fuel,dogs etc?

Dave

[CharlieT]

Colin will correct me but very simply as an employee you can only claim tax relief on expenses incurred for doing your job.

 

Therefore travel costs to and from work would not be claimable but any expense for something that was used only for your job as a beater would be claimable.

[Dunkield]

I think the tax is fixed @ 20% regardless of what band you are in for your main job?

[ColinF]

Colin will correct me but very simply as an employee you can only claim tax relief on expenses incurred for doing your job.

 

Therefore travel costs to and from work would not be claimable but any expense for something that was used only for your job as a beater would be claimable.

 

You are correct, but the rules for employee's claiming expenses are very tight. Personally, I don't think that beaters will be able to claim for anything. This is a link to the HMRC's own manuals, so it's written from their point of view, but will show you how restrictive the rules are:

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM31630.htm

[CharlieT]

I think the tax is fixed @ 20% regardless of what band you are in for your main job?

 

It will be taxed at the rate appropriate to your total income.

[ColinF]

I think the tax is fixed @ 20% regardless of what band you are in for your main job?

 

The shoot may not deduct tax at all, or deduct tax at 20%, or could end up with a PAYE code for you from HMRC, which means any amount of tax could be deducted. At the end of the year you would pay tax on your beating income at your rate of tax, so if your main job makes you a 40% or 45% tax payer, you will pay tax at that rate regardless of what the shoot deducted.

[CharlieT]

 

You are correct, but the rules for employee's claiming expenses are very tight. Personally, I don't think that beaters will be able to claim for anything. This is a link to the HMRC's own manuals, so it's written from their point of view, but will show you how restrictive the rules are:

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM31630.htm

 

Indeed.

Remember the case of the lady barrister who argued her case that the "black suits" she wore in court should be allowable. She won but HMRC took it all the way. I can't see them allowing a set of £30 dual purpose waterproofs or apportioning the cost of of dog food for the family pet.

[ColinF]

 

Indeed.

Remember the case of the lady barrister who argued her case that the "black suits" she wore in court should be allowable. She won but HMRC took it all the way. I can't see them allowing a set of £30 dual purpose waterproofs or apportioning the cost of of dog food for the family pet.

 

She lost in the High Court:

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim37910.htm

 

That was also a "schedule D" or self employed case, the rules for employees are much more restrictive....

[TIDES EDGE]

I am sure some one else pointed this out earlier on , if you are employed check your contract of employment many of them state that you must not work for anyone else so how can you declare your earnings from beating etc

[Dunkield]

 

It will be taxed at the rate appropriate to your total income.

 

As the shoot is paying the tax on our behalf they will pay more for some than others then.

I can see some of us being not to come along next season

[ColinF]

I am sure some one else pointed this out earlier on , if you are employed check your contract of employment many of them state that you must not work for anyone else so how can you declare your earnings from beating etc

 

You're mixing up employment law and tax. If you have a contract with this type of restrictive covenant, it usually only requires the employee to get the employers permission before taking on a second job. It would be unreasonable for the employer to refuse permission if the beating didn't interfere with the "day job".

 

HMRC wouldn't care what your employment contract said about second jobs, and wouldn't tell your main employer about your beating income, or any other sources of income anyway.

[norfolk dumpling]

Got my first beaters pay under new rules. Will submission to Her Majesty's bean counters be as per self employed timings ie assume I request a form sometime next year and submit for period 13/14 by 31/1/15 (or is it earlier 31/10 for non-self employed)

[ColinF]

Got my first beaters pay under new rules. Will submission to Her Majesty's bean counters be as per self employed timings ie assume I request a form sometime next year and submit for period 13/14 by 31/1/15 (or is it earlier 31/10 for non-self employed)

 

For the 2013/14 tax year the deadline is 31st October 2014 for paper returns, or 31st January 2015 for online submissions

[norfolk dumpling]

Cheers.

[gamekeeper1960]

I still can't believe that people think that £25 a day is a wage (less tax !) My God the Tory's have done more to finish of shooting in this country than the anti's! they must be laughing themselfs stupid. It has been illegal to pay beaters tax free for years but the shoots never had a problem with doing it anyway so can someone point out to me by playing into this now could they not be hit with huge bill for past years.

[CharlieT]

That's right, blame the modern day Tories for a tax that was introduced by a self styled Whig in 1799.

Oh and while we are on the subject, it has not been illegal to pay beaters in cash without deducting income tax "for years". It has though, always been the responsibility of the beater to declare his "wage" to the revenue.

[TIDES EDGE]

We have decided not to pay our beaters & pickers up after discussions with them ,they will get a bacon roll at the start ,soup ,sausage and a pasty + a drink at lunch a brace of birds at the end of the day and another drink Oh ! and 3 days shooting beat one stand one of 100 birds.

Do you think this is ok?

Well we gave our beaters their first day of the season on Saturday 120 duck 1 partridge and a pigeon then had a whole lamb spit roast and lots of trimmings and drinks result was a very happy team and no paper work

[David BASC]

Charlie is spot on, its perfectly legal to pay your beaters any way you like, and the law on Tax has not changed. Only the need for the employer to report directly and in 'real time' to HMRC in some circumstances has changed.

 

David

[gamekeeper1960]

Charlie is spot on, its perfectly legal to pay your beaters any way you like, and the law on Tax has not changed. Only the need for the employer to report directly and in 'real time' to HMRC in some circumstances has changed.

 

David

[neil3728]

I do like how beaters seem to think that they have been singeled out by RTI. Every business who has a PAYE scheme is effected. Some of our clients are really struggling and even some of the mian software houses only just got their software updated correctley in time.

 

Will the RTI system make that much difference I really doubt it, people will always find a way to get around it. Infact some already have.

[norfolk dumpling]

Sorry but my understanding was that there was an agreement between CLA and HMRC that tax would be paid at source (20%) and beaters need not declare.

 

The rationale was short season (for most), many beaters outside tax system and relatively low rewards hence not worth HMRC time to collect. NOW tax man has a new computer which can handle data especially as shoot and beater has to do the work and tax man just sits back and sorts out the bad boys and hands out big fines!!

 

This was confirmed in the shooting press just to reassure me I'm not senile.

[ColinF]

Sorry but my understanding was that there was an agreement between CLA and HMRC that tax would be paid at source (20%) and beaters need not declare.

 

The rationale was short season (for most), many beaters outside tax system and relatively low rewards hence not worth HMRC time to collect. NOW tax man has a new computer which can handle data especially as shoot and beater has to do the work and tax man just sits back and sorts out the bad boys and hands out big fines!!

 

This was confirmed in the shooting press just to reassure me I'm not senile.

 

The agreement between HMRC and the CLA states that employers don't have to deduct PAYE from payments to casual beaters, but for the beater, these payments are income and have always been taxable.

 

As Neil says above, RTI isn't an attack on shooting by the Government, it just happens to be that shoots and beaters are caught by it.

[norfolk dumpling]

Neil3728 - one large commercial shoot I'm involved with is struggling to get beaters and they are following new rules very closely.

 

It is the spectre of HMRC forms that is frightening old guys who perhaps thought they had avoided this. There are a couple of benefit claimants too who have dropped out.

 

What is happening elsewhere???

[Dunkield]

Working fine where I beat, provided all my details and the money gets transferred to my bank each Monday (they preferred this just for tracking purposes)

As you say some of the very older generation were a bit twitchy, but then they are petrified of any change anyway.