BASC legal insurance .

[Bitfitter]

David I hope you don't mind me asking but will this new legal insurance cover incidents at work i.e. keepers accused of wildlife crime etc or will it be as with your liability insurance and exclude the work place

[welsh1]

Please remember that your standard BASC package, with the expertise in the BASC firearms team, and our self insurance for appeals already supports you and will deliver for you in the vast majority of cases. What I am looking to do is to add an extra layer of specific insurance to give enhanced protection.

 

As and when this is launched, the BASC legal expenses package will have unique key benefits over and above other products on the market.

 

So not only will you be supporting our dedicated political and media campaigns to promote shooting, not only will you have the back up of a dedicated team of firearms experts, not only will you have access to all the shooting opportunities we will be delivering, not only will you have access to some fantastic discounts and offers you will also have the protection of a unique legal expenses policy.

 

The BASC membership package will never be the cheapest but it will deliver the best value for shooting and its members.

 

David

I mean this in a tongue in cheek sort of way,but you sound like Apple launching the same old thing but with promises of so much to come.you mention the expertise of your firearms team,yet there is someone else offering a legal team to support you,are any of your firearms team legally trained?

 

What is this extra layer of enhanced protection? or will it simply match other available insurance.

 

I will be interested to compare like for like policies and see what you will offer over and above others.

[David BASC]

The policy will be restricted to recreational activities only, and keeper who is full time employed would need to check with their employer what cover they have in place for any work related liabilities- criminal, or tort., as vicarious liability would attach of course

 

I will double check on the wildlife law bit.

 

None of our firearms team are qualified lawyers / solicitors / solicitor advocates - but we do have an arrangement with a local law firm who have firearms expert solicitors / advocates who we can call on for help. We are also lucky that we have a top UK firearms expert Barrister on Council plus another expert Barrister who we can and do use from time to time. So we already have an expert legal team backing us, and thus our members.

 

If a person has committed a criminal offence such as assault for example, or made threats or broken the terms of their licence and committed an absolute offence, or cannot show good reason or demonstrate intemperate habits, or are a danger to the public, then no level of legal support will make any difference.

 

As I said before, the BASC firearms team can already sort out the vast majority of licencing issues by liaising with the police, with three ex coppers on the team, two of who have worked in firearms licencing, we already have a key advantage when discussing issues with the police, I hope you agree. And to be honest most licencing teams are pretty good - However there will be times when a person is refused a grant, renewal or variation, or who is revoked and its clear the police have over reacted or obviously made a muck of it. In those cases, its often the case the police may take the decision 'let the court decide' knowing that the cost of going to court is prohibitive in most cases. This is where the new policy will cut in.

 

As I have said, we self insure appeals, but having this extra layer of insurance will make it quicker and slicker to take matter to law, it will also give us the flexibility to take forward cases that may not have fully met the self insurance criteria. Having said that the policy will still have the same caveats as any other legal expenses policy ie there must be a 50% or better prospect of success. However, thats not the end of it, we will retain the ability to self insure, so there could be cases that are not covered by the policy but which BASC would still be prepared to fund - I don't think anyone else will offer that.

 

Our policy will use a set list of lawyers ,advocates and barristers who are experts in firearms law -so you will have an expert on your legal team and not just someone the insurers have selected.

 

We have spent the last 10 months looking at loads of different polices that are on the market, and a couple of bespoke ones too and have selected the one that fits our members the best in terms of cover and representation.

 

So when our policy kicks in you are not only getting the expertise of the BASC firearms team but you will also by guaranteed to have a solicitor and barrister who are experts in firearms law.

 

I will be happy to publicise the full policy wording and full policy summary as soon as possible and before the policy is in place so all can see what's on offer, to be honest I have not seen anyone else publish their full policy wording - have you? If they do then yes we can all compare 'like for like' as it were - and this is important.

 

David

Edited September 10, 2013 by David BASC

[welsh1]

A fair answer, and upfront which i appreciate,I look forward to comparing before making my final decision.

 

Lastly, will the cost of this be incorporated in the fee as it stands or will we pay for it?

 

Cheers.

[David BASC]

The final decision rests with Council, but I will make the sound business case for inclusion in the sub ,I think that is the best option - don't you? Although the subs may go up by a few quid, but only a few quid, and the last time they went up was 2010

[welsh1]

I personally think it should be included,as to price, you have to look at your competitors and see how wide the gap may become between different associations fees.Times are tough for lots out there and cost is an overriding factor for a lot of people.

[Dee Wildfowler]

There is a Council meeting next Thursday, the 19th, and I will raise the insurance issue then. There won't be a decision made next week because it'll have to be investigated and costed but I would expect the facts to be brought to our October meeting when a decision will be made and, if accepted, any financial implications can be included in next year's Budget which comes to Council in November.

 

I can't predict what Council will decide but in my opinion it would be a sensible step to take depending on cost implications. So don't go moving to other organisations just yet, keep your powder dry and see what BASC does.

 

John

[figgy]

As it will take BASC a while to get it sorted most will have either taken up the top offer or joined another organisation along with their BASC at least untill next renewal, before deciding who to go with.

 

It would have cost me £40.00 to top up the insurance with BASC or £50.00 for joint membership of SACS negating the need of BASC membership for my son so helped another organisation and saved me money.

 

Figgy

[David BASC]

The need to make sure the police deliver on simple licencing forms remains.

 

The need to deliver a strong and consistent media and political promotion of shooting remains.

 

The need to keep pressure on the Police to deliver a better more efficient service remains.

 

The need to keep pressure on mobile phone companies to free up access to shooting sites remains.

 

The need to keep pressure on licencing fees remains.

 

And so on..

 

So looking at the bigger picture, is it not more sensible to stick with BASC and help us to keep delivering for the benefit of shooting while this Legal expenses issue gets sorted?

 

No amount of legal cover will help resolve any of the above will it?

 

OK you may need legal expenses cover in the next few months – but what’s the real risk? Think about it but remember 99% of issues that can be fixed will be fixed if you call BASC as a member anyway.

 

But you will certainly need BASC to deliver on all of the above and more today, tomorrow, next week, next month next year….

 

David

[BlaserF3]

I have always thought that this http://www.bssc.org.uk/ was the Major organisation against further leglislation.

Edited September 11, 2013 by BlaserF3

[David BASC]

They are a group made up of reps from some of the shooting organisations, mainly target shooting.

 

Yes they do meet with parts of the HO, but it’s the organisations within them that deliver the goods. If you read the report you will see for example that’s its been BASC that took the lead on the medical records issue with the BMA

 

There is so much more to promoting shooting and good practice in licencing than just legal expenses insurance.

 

David

[sixhills 69]

The need to make sure the police deliver on simple licencing forms remains.

 

The need to deliver a strong and consistent media and political promotion of shooting remains.

 

The need to keep pressure on the Police to deliver a better more efficient service remains.

 

The need to keep pressure on mobile phone companies to free up access to shooting sites remains.

 

The need to keep pressure on licencing fees remains.

 

And so on..

 

So looking at the bigger picture, is it not more sensible to stick with BASC and help us to keep delivering for the benefit of shooting while this Legal expenses issue gets sorted?

 

No amount of legal cover will help resolve any of the above will it?

 

OK you may need legal expenses cover in the next few months – but what’s the real risk? Think about it but remember 99% of issues that can be fixed will be fixed if you call BASC as a member anyway.

 

But you will certainly need BASC to deliver on all of the above and more today, tomorrow, next week, next month next year….

 

David

God Dam it am always the 1%

 

what a load of rubbish you can only sort out peoples issues if you have the full facts BUT if the firearms licencing department will not play along with the licence holder, then the licence holder should if a member be able to contact your firearms team for help.

I will not publish what I was told.

In this modern day the general public want to reduce the amount of firearms licence holders due to the fear caused by the media.

I bet their are lots of members on here that have had a knock at the door by the local police and been falsely accused of something.

I feel that a move towards BASC sorting out a policy needed to be done.

SACS give me what I need and they do not spend lots of money ever 3 months on magazines for members maybe No Frills but I know a few people that have had an issue with the police.

 

If you have an anger management issue then you will loose your licence at some point.

If you make idol threats you will loose.

if you point a gun at someone you will loose.

and many more

 

Things will only get worse with the media pushing to remove firearms which are legally held due to there lies and confusing tactics just to sell papers.

David I have tried twice now to forward that letter to you and for some reason it keeps being returned?

[David BASC]

Odd, the e-mail is working, ( david.ilsley@basc.org.uk ) just been checking them now - what is the error message?

 

As to being able to contact the firearms team, yes I agree absolutely, and I know there will be times when the phones are engaged or go to answer machine - tomorrow will be a prime example as all are at a key strategic meeting, organised by the NGO, with ACPO and loads of licencing managers from all over the UK. However I have some thoughts about how we can improve our service levels across the board.

 

Yes false accusations are a key concern, but if you do go round threatening people with or without a gun , or are of intemperate habits you will, in all likelihood, get revoked or refused - be honest if you knew a chap down your local who was 'Mr Angry' was known for threatening people, would you give him a licence? No nor would I.

 

Trust me I will do all I can to improve the service, improve the package and make sure we deliver more and more for shooting and most importantly our members.

 

I will PM my personal e-mail address- you can try that one if you want?

 

David

[Elmer Fudd 1]

Elmer, no problem at all I am more than happy for members to contact be via what ever method they choose to ask questions such as this , and yes I will.

 

David

thank you!

[hawkeye]

Well ive solved the problem for me joined SACs for the legal cover as an OAP it was only £22

but i have been a member of BASC for the last 12 years since i started back into shooting and i will still keep my membership up with them...

[mossy835]

looks good for the money,i have been looking at it.

[Paul223]

I wonder if its possible to get a £ by £ breakdown of membership dues. I suppose basc accounts are public info anyway? Be interesting? Seems to me they could include legal cover as part of the package charging another £20 is profiteering ? Might be wrong though?

yeah I'd like to know how much directly is spent on media representation and opposing/changing firearm legislation?

[norfolk dumpling]

At what age do you become a senior citizen for BASC membership - retired but only 60??

[mossy835]

over 65, then its £56

Edited September 15, 2013 by mossy835

[Dee Wildfowler]

I raised the matter of legal cover at Thursday's BASC Council meeting, it was confirmed that for an individual the cost would be between £20 and £30 depending on which insurer was used, however if BASC bought cover for the whole membership the cost per head would be under £3, therefore it appears to be a no brainer and I expect a formal proposal to include it as part of the insurance package in November for inclusion in the Budget for next year. But just to confirm, it will be legal cover for firearms issues only and not for anything else.

 

John

[mossy835]

sacs,full cover for every thing £35 any one between18 and 65 years old.thats worth thinking about i am.

[David BASC]

Of course I take your point on costs for insurance, but as I and indeed others have said before, promoting shooting, politically and in the media as well as delivering shooting opportunities for members is more important.

 

Only a very small number of us would ever need to call on legal expenses insurance for a firearm related issue, more of us may well need to make a claim on our public liability insurance, but every one of us will be impacted by changes in legislation or negative pressure on shooting from the media, restrictions on access to shooting or poor licencing practice.

 

Personally, for the extra 67p a week for all the rest that BASC delivers seems rather good value.

 

Anyway, the top and the bottom of it is that BASC is always looking to develop and improve the membership package, thanks to all who have raised and contributed to this thread and for the constructive debate, its much appreciated.

 

David

Edited September 22, 2013 by David BASC

[Paul223]

So basc subs will go up to at least 69 quid?

 

Think I'd rather join sacs and send basc a 20 quid donation

[figgy]

David I think BASC will retain most if its members for the very good reasons you stated in your posts about what BASC does for our sport.

 

Membership to a shooting and country sports association is about more than just insurance, as insurance only policies can be had cheap.

 

I will continue to be a BASC member, also joining other organisations in future like cpsa.

 

Figgy

Edited September 22, 2013 by figgy

[dadioles]

I raised the matter of legal cover at Thursday's BASC Council meeting, it was confirmed that for an individual the cost would be between £20 and £30 depending on which insurer was used, however if BASC bought cover for the whole membership the cost per head would be under £3, therefore it appears to be a no brainer and I expect a formal proposal to include it as part of the insurance package in November for inclusion in the Budget for next year. But just to confirm, it will be legal cover for firearms issues only and not for anything else.

 

John

 

So with 129000 members BASC would have to pay £387000 per annum in insurance premiums for legal cover based on £3 per head. Wow!