TheAntMarks Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Hi All, I am having abit of a problem for West Yorkshire Firearms Licensing Department and im wondering if any one else's experience has been similar? I sold my CZ 452 that was advertised on this site, no problem there. Everything went through smoothly and the gun went to a new home. However, that was 4 weeks ago and ive had numerous calls from a very rude member off staff saying that I need to get a new gun immediately or your license will be cancelled. Now, stop me if im wrong but I find it was quite an abrupt way to put things.. Anyway, as some people may know it does not take a day to buy a gun, ive done a lot of research and pricing to find the right gun, but its not cheap. So I have to wait until next pay day in order to get one. Is it right that 4 weeks after selling my gun they can retaract my license? where is the leeway in that? Im currently still shooting but its a HW100T, I just cannot afford to get a new firearms yet. Thanks Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 That's out of order. Usual advice, contact BASC, it's of no concern that you have an empty slot. Some may argue that if you don't fill it, you have no need for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Take the name of this member of staff and report them to the head of firearms licencing. As kyska has already said, contact BASC,NGO, CA or whoever you are a member with. If you're not a member, join, but it's still worth a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Sounds like you may not have notified them of the sale or that you only have one slot on your FAC and having sold the firearm and not requested a replacement empty slot (authorisation to acquire) they feel your FAC is void. The usual procedure when you sell a firearm is to notify Plod within 7 days and request a free 1 for 1 variation for another rifle of the same (or different ) calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 you can have a empty slot till the end of the licence,just get a gun befor the licence runs out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 A little harsh but understandable if you have not done a 1 for 1 and you don't possess any other firearms as they will see it as you do not have a good reason no more. Contact them and tell them you will be acquiring your new rifle in the next month or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 All good replies but it doesn't really excuse the rudeness of the firearms department staff does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Maybe if he hasn't applied for a 1 for 1 and has no authority to possess anything they are trying to be helpful and telling him to apply for a slot so they don't revoke his FAC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Sounds like you may not have notified them of the sale or that you only have one slot on your FAC and having sold the firearm and not requested a replacement empty slot (authorisation to acquire) they feel your FAC is void. The usual procedure when you sell a firearm is to notify Plod within 7 days and request a free 1 for 1 variation for another rifle of the same (or different ) calibre. I think you're right about what's happenig here. Even if he's notified them about the disposal, if he hasn't applied to for an authority to acquire something else then i can foresee a somewhat 'fuzzy' situation regarding his cert. A FAC is needed to possess a firearm but if there is no firearm listed to be acquired then there is no reason for the certificate to exist! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljaddy12 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 sounds like some one was having a bad day at the office never had much hassle with west yorks ring them back ask em direct what the specific issue is regarding your cert they should tell you point blank i dont know if you have to acquire a firearm in 4 weeks or loose cert basc should know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 sounds like some one was having a bad day at the office never had much hassle with west yorks ring them back ask em direct what the specific issue is regarding your cert they should tell you point blank i dont know if you have to acquire a firearm in 4 weeks or loose cert basc should know You don't have to acquire a firearm within 4 weeks. However, if you have sold your only firearm and not applied for authority to acquire another then technically as you no longer have a firearm you have no reason to be in possession of a blank fac and should return it. Particularly as the fac gives authority to acquire ammunition you have no legal use for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAntMarks Posted September 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Thanks so much for the feedback guys, really appreciate. I am going to take this matter further over the weekend and seek advice from a professional body. I have a license for a 22lr and a 17hmr. Since haivng my license i have had only 1 firearm, a 22lr which i sold about 4 weeks ago. I submitted the information via recorded delivery the day after I sold the firearm. The police confirmed the receipt of the disposal. I therefore have a slot left on my license for a 17hmr which i intend to buy within due course. However, being made aware that I could have my license revoked if I dont not buy a firearm with a few weeks did scare me a little bit. Im just quite disaapointed with how this is being dealt with. i will certainly be making a complaint. Thanks for your help. Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAntMarks Posted September 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 I did call her and asked what the deadline was for purchasing a firearm and she said "there isnt one" yet she demands I buy one within a few weeks else my license will be revoked. I have the voicemail on my phone too. Thanks Anthoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted September 13, 2013 Report Share Posted September 13, 2013 Maybe her husband owns a local gunshop and she's touting for business for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottonseed Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Sounds like you may not have notified them of the sale or that you only have one slot on your FAC and having sold the firearm and not requested a replacement empty slot (authorisation to acquire) they feel your FAC is void. The usual procedure when you sell a firearm is to notify Plod within 7 days and request a free 1 for 1 variation for another rifle of the same (or different ) calibre. I suspect this is what's happened. You need to apply for a variation and you'll have to pay the £26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I suspect this is what's happened. You need to apply for a variation and you'll have to pay the £26. You do not have to pay for a 1 for 1 variation even if you're changing calibre. You only pay if you're adding another slot on your FAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 You do not have to pay for a 1 for 1 variation even if you're changing calibre. You only pay if you're adding another slot on your FAC. Not quite, you only have 7 days in which to apply for the free variation, after that you will have to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Not quite, you only have 7 days in which to apply for the free variation, after that you will have to pay. Says who ? Quoted from the guidance............... “One for one” variations 10.66 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms, even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling ('Wilson v Coombe', Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired following the disposal of a firearm or a request to change an existing authority to acquire.There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of. The keeping of open authorities indefinitely should be discouraged, subject to a collector seeking particular firearms. Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holder submitting their firearm certificate together with a completed Form 101 to the police firearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. In most cases, it will not be necessary to re-examine the applicant’s circumstances. Further enquiries will be necessary, however, if for example the application is for a change of use or for a fullbore firearm when the holder’s shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) My force have an expanded version, "The same blue Form 101 as for the grant of a firearm certificate should be used. The certificate holder must submit his current firearm certificate, along with his completed Form 101, and where appropriate, the fee No new photographs are required, nor is it necessary to provide referees. The appropriate fee is payable only when the variation application, results in an increase in the number of firearms authorised by the certificate. However this fee is waived when such an application is made at the same time as a renewal. One for one variations It is emphasised that a variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of his firearms, even if he seeks to purchase one identical to the one he is disposing of. Applications for "one for one" variations, including both same and different calibre weapons, should be made by the certificate holder submitting his firearm certificate together with a completed Form 101, direct to Firearms Licensing. Such applications will be processed free of charge, providing that the police are informed of the disposal transaction and the new request at the same time. In the case of a change of authorisation which has not yet been taken up, this is not usually a problem. However, applicants sometimes request a free "one for one" variation for weapons they have disposed of some time ago. Such requests cannot be dealt with on a free "one for one" basis, as the weapon being replaced is no longer on the current certificate, thus resulting in an increase in the number of weapons presently held. Further enquiries are not normally necessary for applications where good reason is unchanged or where agreed storage capacities are not exceeded. However, if for example, the application includes a change of use or to acquire a full-bore firearm when the applicant's shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting, then the circumstances will have to be re-examined. Similarly if the agreed storage capacity is exceeded, due to an increase in the number of weapons held, then it will be necessary to re-inspect the security aspect. " Edited September 19, 2013 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 It seems your force is adding this to there requirements but as far as I can see they aren't able to enforce this as it is not the law. You don't even have to have a 'weapon' (not a term that should be used, it's a firearms certificate not a weapons certificate) on your certificate to do a 1 for 1. The 1 for 1 is actually for a slot on your certificate so when you sell your firearm you legally still have a slot for that calibre and just need to get a 1 for 1 to acquire a new firearm. As per usual the police are trying to make up there own rules as they go along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 It seems that Durham is going completely against Home Office guidelines. As FAC charges are set by legislation it would seem that such a charge would be illegal and unenforceable. Perhaps when Durham condescend to read the guidelines they will amend their website and policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) There is no time limit for requesting a free variation for an unused slot/authority to acquire, this can be made at any time during the life of the certificate. The slot/authority to acquire is a one time single usage, after it's used it no longer exists on the certificate and is replaced with the firearm that has been acquired. As far as I can find all police authorities basically use the same procedure as Durham regarding the sale/transfer/disposal of an existing firearm. Notification of the sale/transfer/disposal along with any request for a 1 for 1 variation is to be made in writing (most will accept fax or email) within 7 days and this will be usually be done free of charge. A free 1 for 1 can not be requested after the licensing department have accepted the sale/transfer/disposal notification and removed the firearm from the certificate as this does not give you the empty slot back, it only removes the firearm. Any request made after that time is classed as a new variation and is chargeable. Edited September 19, 2013 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 You are missing the point. Please see my post at 19 and the text highlighted in red. I quote the relevant section again: “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired following the disposal of a firearm or a request to change an existing authority to acquire.There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of. The keeping of open authorities indefinitely should be discouraged, subject to a collector seeking particular firearms. Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holder submitting their firearm certificate together with a completed Form 101 to the police firearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Not at all, I understood perfectly, all I'm saying is that in practice every police force I've looked at so far who have variation procedures listed on their firearms pages use the same system. I agree it's not what's written in the HO guidance but that's the way they operate, the reason being that it's more cost effective to be able to do both things at the same time. Edited September 19, 2013 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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