placeboard training

[bi9johnny]

Hey guys can we get back to the reasoning behind the training method and leave mr openshaw alone, if you want a pop at him do it elsewhere not by hijacking my thread

Regards

John

 

So is anyone got any knowledge of what it's about properly, thanks

[cracker]

Ask any American trainer, they've been using this method for years.

Plenty of info about it around the net if you look carefully.

 

No, ask any American retriever trainer, and they used this method years ago. Passe over here now, but apparently spaniel trainers in the US (and Opie) are "catching up to the times." Nothing wrong with place boards, just nothing necessary about them in training up a spaniel, or any gundog.

 

MG

Edited September 23, 2013 by cracker

[atbh61]

No, ask any American retriever trainer, and they used this method years ago. Passe over here now, but apparently spaniel trainers in the US (and Opie) are "catching up to the times." Nothing wrong with place boards, just nothing necessary about them in training up a spaniel, or any gundog.

 

MG

Think thats about right.

[kent]

I think they are a good visual aid to movement, I often sort this with another visual aid like my stick thrown on the floor or a nearby plant, pot hole etc. ( I cannot be alone in this) The dog tends to look at you when its sneaked 2ft forwards on the drop with disbelieving eyes like " how the heck did he know that" in the end the simple creatures just except that humans can see 360 degrees LOL.

Never used a place board but I have thought training the dog to stay on a stand might be useful shooting the tide as it keeps them from having to sit in the water for long periods.

We all know creeping intensifies to the point were the command is lost if left uncorrected, why let it escalate in the first place? Have also seen place boards used for steadying to quarry, again a good visual aid to movement.

Edited September 24, 2013 by kent

[Cockerman59]

The issue I got with it and getting a perfect delivery is that I have never seen a trial spaniel with a perfect delivery, they take/grab the bird off the dog, even Openshaw dogs, I can see how it works, but why, delivery, heal, do not seem to be important factors in trials

[darren m]

 

No, ask any American retriever trainer, and they used this method years ago. Passe over here now, but apparently spaniel trainers in the US (and Opie) are "catching up to the times." Nothing wrong with place boards, just nothing necessary about them in training up a spaniel, or any gundog.

 

MG

 

so what can a spaniel trainer use them for .

if its to stop a creeper , because you have a good visual , i might knock one up .

 

i tried using a hoola hoop but the dog was weiry of it flipping up when it caught it with the paw

[cracker]

I think they are a good visual aid to movement, I often sort this with another visual aid like my stick thrown on the floor or a nearby plant, pot hole etc. ( I cannot be alone in this) The dog tends to look at you when its sneaked 2ft forwards on the drop with disbelieving eyes like " how the heck did he know that" in the end the simple creatures just except that humans can see 360 degrees LOL.

Never used a place board but I have thought training the dog to stay on a stand might be useful shooting the tide as it keeps them from having to sit in the water for long periods.

We all know creeping intensifies to the point were the command is lost if left uncorrected, why let it escalate in the first place? Have also seen place boards used for steadying to quarry, again a good visual aid to movement.

kent, not quite sure what you mean by "visual aid" - as in white dummies for getting the dog's attention when thrown?

 

Told you elsewhere the dog "stands" are popular amongst N. American duck hunters - come in many different sizes, styles and shapes. Since "sit means sit" is usually among the first commands inculcated to our retrieving gundogs, dogs - spaniels and retrievers alike - usually hop onto the stands (and stay their butts there) with aplomb. Nobody I know, nor have ever known dating back 25 years, has used a placeboard as a surrogate for this.

 

In our retriever field trials, the dogs often leave "the line" from a mat - ordinary welcome mat or something a little grander - at the judges' instruction. So, yes, we often train with those - with one of those. Again, a placeboard might be a surrogate for that with any unruly dog (creeper). I've got one on my truck now - a mat, not dog - that's about the size of Royal Mail First Class stamp. The dogs don't necessarily like plopping their butts on it whilst waiting for three or four birds to go down, but they learn unless they do, they don't get to pick the birds. Creeping tends to go away without any need for summonging my DIY or carpentry skills.

 

MG

[pontbeck]

I dismissed this method as over complicating and unnecessary, until I delved a bit further and it certainly has it's merits.

[cracker]

I dismissed this method as over complicating and unnecessary, until I delved a bit further and it certainly has it's merits.

And..., Bill? (Belief here is that all gundog training has its merits, just some more than others.)

 

MG

[kent]

kent, not quite sure what you mean by "visual aid" - as in white dummies for getting the dog's attention when thrown?

 

Told you elsewhere the dog "stands" are popular amongst N. American duck hunters - come in many different sizes, styles and shapes. Since "sit means sit" is usually among the first commands inculcated to our retrieving gundogs, dogs - spaniels and retrievers alike - usually hop onto the stands (and stay their butts there) with aplomb. Nobody I know, nor have ever known dating back 25 years, has used a placeboard as a surrogate for this.

 

In our retriever field trials, the dogs often leave "the line" from a mat - ordinary welcome mat or something a little grander - at the judges' instruction. So, yes, we often train with those - with one of those. Again, a placeboard might be a surrogate for that with any unruly dog (creeper). I've got one on my truck now - a mat, not dog - that's about the size of Royal Mail First Class stamp. The dogs don't necessarily like plopping their butts on it whilst waiting for three or four birds to go down, but they learn unless they do, they don't get to pick the birds. Creeping tends to go away without any need for summonging my DIY or carpentry skills.

 

MG

No I find the whole colour dummy thing pants as I have said many times, dogs see movement very much better than we do, though are quite blind in comparison to humans and colour contrast and shape. It might sell a few more dummies for the suppliers that's about it IMO. A dog marks well through seeing movement in a sort of slow motion and can see better than a human in very low light but can also mark by sound at remarkable distances. I know you feel differently about the coloured dummy so lets not divert things.

 

If you drop a dog in a featureless field, dropping your stick or hat etc near it in training lets you know if you have a creeper. Without that dogs can get a real good knack of playing "grandmothers footsteps" Dropping the dog on the track near a pot hole has the same aim (a visual aid to the trainer not the dog) indeed its better if the dog never twigs onto the whole hat / stick malarkey.

[cracker]

If you drop a dog in a featureless field, dropping your stick or hat etc near it in training lets you know if you have a creeper. Without that dogs can get a real good knack of playing "grandmothers footsteps" Dropping the dog on the track near a pot hole has the same aim (a visual aid to the trainer not the dog) indeed its better if the dog never twigs onto the whole hat / stick malarkey.

 

Not altogether getting the translation, sorry. "Dropping a dog in a featureless field, dropping your stick or hat etc near it in training lets you know you have a creeper." Meaning tossing the hat or stick etc in front of the dog to try and trick it to come out of its hup, as in creeping? That wouldn't be creeping by my measure, anyhow, it would be unsteadiness. Creeping in our parlance is a dog that scoots on its bum a little forward("er") each time a bird goes down in a multiple marking setup. Creeps, but doesn't break (run in). A dog theoretically can creep even on a placeboard, to the edge even and go over it. But it's far less likely to happen if the placeboard is up on a platform six inches to a foot high.

 

Not to divert things, but the white dummies are the best visual aid for our training because of the retrieving distances involved and the backdrop for training - usually a treeline of the same muted colour as canvas dummies...and the liberated birds we train with (pheasants, hen mallards). Often, at those distances, we "throw a dummy to the bird" - the dead bird has been chunked out and the thrower follows it by throwing a white dummy to the bird to help the dog's marking.

 

You'll also have noted that the white dummies are plastic and waterproof, which means that's where they get most of their use with young dogs - as a visual aid by pulling a dog into the water on a straight line and letting it continue on that straight line until hoovering the dummy from the water (and swimming same straight line back to you for delivery).

 

MG

[kent]

Two nations divided by a common language! Your views are different to mine on marking and also the fact that I care not for straight lines, I expect the dog to work with the current and with the wind- I do not enter competitive dog sport though and understand the why .

[jayman]

I've just made 3 place boards last week, after watching the Openshaw clips, and it certainly does something!! My Sproker would never sit and hold a dummy, she does now, I can send her from board to board where she will wait for the next command or to give it back.

 

I also had great problems with getting her to sit in one place whilst I went indoors to do her dinner, she does now!! and all this in one week. So I've ordered the DVD and it's due tomorrow. (I did have some reservations trying it on a older dog (14months) but totally get the reasoning for starting this with a young pup.

 

I've today taken her training and I've defiantly noticed her sitting and waiting more patiently??

 

PM me if anyone wants any feed back after I've watched the full DVD

[darren m]

feed back - yes please

would this help an older dog that just cant keep its **** on the floor and shuffles forward during training / shooting over it etc

[jayman]

Just watched the DVD and it's clear this is a tool for focusing the dogs attention firmly on the trainer, as the dog is learning that at some point the trainer will reward with a retrieve.

 

Whilst doing so the dog is subconsciously learning that it is to be steady and sit in one place until told what to do and return in front of the trainer. the core fundamentals that underpin everything. to have these instilled in a dog from a young age should help everything else that follows.

 

My Sproker is 14 Months old and only after 2 weeks I have been able to have more control than I ever have before.

[beeredup]

i can see the positives in this method for concentrating a young dog whilst instilling the basics and steadyness as at the moment i can't for the life of me get my young sprocker to sit/stay when i try to step even one step back from him

[darren m]

one of my springers is a shuffle **** , shes not disobedient as such , she just cant help it.

 

i always drag her back to the spot but she will move with out fail , approx 1 or 2 feet .

i,ve tried every trick including a good bo??ocking.

 

its not really a problem , but is blooming anoying for all my efforts she still does it.

shes 4 yrs now and im guessing this is for pups , but it just might be worth a try.

 

Are there any video clips or write ups on PBT on the net any where , and how much does this dvd cost

[scotslad]

I've been reading this thread with interrest and in theory this type off training should be ideal for both the above problems.

 

I see u haved tried every trick so i guess u will have tried this darren, but u never know

 

Have u tried either sitting ur dog up facing some thing that could act as a mental barrier for the dog, say a 1 side off a footpath or garden path/ small ditch or small shallow burn/ kerb stones/ broken down fence, so that for it to creep it has to cross this mental barrier on to something different, sitting it on a kerbstone/pavement might work as has to creep up or down vertically just like the placeboards

 

The other thing i was going to suggest is a similar idea, and an exageration of dropping ur hat lead type thing, sit dog up and make a point of laying something down immediately in front of it, possibly walking stick, alkethene pipe, bit off 2x2 timber (possibly bigger would be better?) so dog has to creep over the obsticle, same idea just trying to create a mental/physical lie that the dog will think twice about crossing and give dog plenty of praise when it sits stilll.

 

Otherwise might find more info on PBT on more specilasit gundog training sites or even look at some of the american ones as i think it has came from there

Edited October 9, 2013 by scotslad

[jayman]

DVD costs £30 from Paul French Video.

[bi9johnny]

DVD costs £30 from Paul French Video.

anyone care to share