norfolk dumpling Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 My personal experience of religious figures has been disappointing to say the least: from mild abuse at school to trying to shoot me when pinching the vicars apples. Rather put me off church. However having kept an open mind it still seem to me this 'here after' is a product of dreadful days of deprivation and starvation where you were taught there was something wonderful after life BUT no one has come back to tell me this exists so here I am no believing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 the only certain way of knowing is being their during the "creation", we cannot yet travel backwards in time but maybe one day a bloke will pop from the sky who can. Just keep praying and he will come..... Maybe..... After a few years..... After a lifetime..... After millions have died from natural causes...... After we release a atom bomb killing millions in ww2....what he gave us?...... Just keep praying.... Lol Is your assumption here that God will step in and stop all suffering? Dont remain a **** Henry, everything else evolves despite religeon - why not your sense of humour? Perhaps your god denies the existence of a sense of humour in relation to himself, if so he's a perverse god and obviously not one to be followed. I actually think Paganism has its place if you arent too stuffy about its precise practice. No ferrets this time. It was used as a joke, sorry if it was too vague. Paganism as in the form of modern or ancient paganism? Thing is, if gravity existed how did Jesus accend to heaven? Gravity does exist, Jesus ascended because he is the creator and omnipotent. Not sorry for you personally, just the believers! It is impossible because it is unproveable. As is the fact that you cannot disprove God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) As is the fact that you cannot disprove God.It is true you cannot disprove God, but that can be said for Santa, Tooth Fairy etc. I assume you don't believe in them. Also, being a Christian you only believe in one god and ignore the 100's of others from different religions. So you disbelieve in 99% of gods, you're almost an aethiest... Edited October 2, 2013 by Cyrus1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Tooth Fairy not real.....Nooooooooooooooo!!!! are you serious... That's my childhood ruined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 It is true you cannot disprove God, but that can be said for Santa, Tooth Fairy etc. I assume you don't believe in them. I did believe in them until I found out the truth. Also, being a Christian you only believe in one god and ignore the 100's of others from different religions. So you disbelieve in 99% of gods, you're almost an aethiest... Unfortunately it is a flawed argument, I believe in one God, there are no others. Atheism could be classed as a religion as it is a belief system based on faith that there is no God. Finally I do not believe you can be almost an atheist, it is like being a little bit pregnant, you either believe in God(s)/no god(s) or are agnostic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) Unfortunately it is a flawed argument, I believe in one God, there are no others. Atheism could be classed as a religion as it is a belief system based on faith that there is no God. Finally I do not believe you can be almost an atheist, it is like being a little bit pregnant, you either believe in God(s)/no god(s) or are agnostic. Okay the 99% aithiest bit was a joke. But, how can you say "you believed in them until you found out the truth"? The truth is you cannot prove that Santa does not exist just like you cannot prove that god does not exist. Edited October 2, 2013 by Cyrus1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodo123 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Okay the 99% aithiest bit was a joke. But, how can you say "you believed in them until you found out the truth"? The truth is you cannot prove that Santa does not exist just like you cannot prove that god does not exist. Their is probably more tangable evidence for Santa existing than Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppythedog Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Unfortunately it is a flawed argument, I believe in one God, there are no others. Atheism could be classed as a religion as it is a belief system based on faith that there is no God. Finally I do not believe you can be almost an atheist, it is like being a little bit pregnant, you either believe in God(s)/no god(s) or are agnostic. Just as you say I cannot disprove the non existence of god, you cannot prove that there are no others. Are you saying that all followers of other religions are completely wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 It is true you cannot disprove God, but that can be said for Santa, Tooth Fairy etc. I assume you don't believe in them. Also, being a Christian you only believe in one god and ignore the 100's of others from different religions. So you disbelieve in 99% of gods, you're almost an aethiest... Dont be daft , of course it can be proved the tooth fairy exists , how else did those 50p pieces get under my pillow when I was a kid . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppythedog Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Dont be daft , of course it can be proved the tooth fairy exists , how else did those 50p pieces get under my pillow when I was a kid . 50p!!!!!! I only got sixpence for mine :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 50p!!!!!! I only got sixpence for mine :-( inflation kids have overheads you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Their is probably more tangable evidence for Santa existing than Jesus. Go on then, produce the evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Just as you say I cannot disprove the non existence of god, you cannot prove that there are no others. Are you saying that all followers of other religions are completely wrong? I never said I was disproving other gods I said "I believe in one God, there are no others." it is a statement of faith, definitely not trying to disprove anything. As for all other faiths being wrong, no as Jews are correct up to a point, all others yes my belief says they are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I never said I was disproving other gods I said "I believe in one God, there are no others." it is a statement of faith, definitely not trying to disprove anything. As for all other faiths being wrong, no as Jews are correct up to a point, all others yes my belief says they are wrong.Henry, can you understand how someone growing up in say Algeria, believes just as fervently, with the same deeply held conviction that his Muslim faith is correct and you are wrong? Or a Hindu in rural India? Etc, etc. Another question if I may? I am genuinely interested in your views by the way, not being provocative. Does a child who is born, lives and dies in a remote part of the world, without being aware that Christianity even exists, and thus follows another religion have any hope of entering heaven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Yes, yes. I go to church with a woman who by birth was a Hindu, she found faith in Jesus due to the inconsistencies of the caste system and I am interviewing her, on this subject, for an essay soon. When we look at Islam there is as much insistence that it is a cultural identity as much as, if not more than, a religion for many adherents (generalisation alert) and when looked at in depth there are (IMHO) many more inconsistencies than the Judeo-christian faiths. If taken too literally some scripture refutes the possibility of those who do not hear the word/gospel, however the main teachings of Jesus, God incarnate, seems to indicate that this, along with those who are incapable of understanding through physical/mental incapacity have/can not hear it, will go to heaven (suffer the children & Jesus and the scribe discussing the greatest commandment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Go on then, produce the evidence. http://www.noradsanta.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) The problem I have with all of this, is that whatever religion someone follows, is largely a lottery based on where in the world they happened to be born, parental influence education and upbringing. I'm sure I wouldn't have to look too hard to find devout Muslims, Hindus, Jews or whatever who believe they see similar inconsistencies in Christianity that you see in Islam. Vengeful, jealous, mysogonyst OT God, versus loving, forgiving NT God for example? They/you can't all be right? And I can see no reason, (other than my own upbringing which I am beginning to question), why you might be more right than them. In regard to scripture being taken too literally, is any other approach not cherry picking the bits you can make sense of and choosing to ignore those that are a bit inconvenient? Edited October 2, 2013 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) Not really, they are not similar inconsistencies, very different. It is good for anyone to acknowledge their context when they enter into a conversation that is important and I thank you for that, however in answer to you query, the God of the OT as you say was vengeful (to his own people), jealous (of his own people), as at that time his people were "his people" however the big plan was to encompass all of humanity (through Abram). I fail to see, however, about the misogyny, can you expand please? Edited October 2, 2013 by henry d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Not really, they are not similar inconsistencies, very different. It is good for anyone to acknowledge their context when they enter into a conversation that is important and I thank you for that, however in answer to you query, the God of the OT as you say was vengeful (to his own people), jealous (of his own people), as at that time his people were "his people" however the big plan was to encompass all of humanity (through Abram). I fail to see, however, about the misogyny, can you expand please? Henry, a few examples, quickly Googled, there are many, many more: Zechariah 14:1-2 Behold a day is coming for the Lord, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city Deuteronomy 20:10-14 “When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And if it responds to you peaceably and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you. But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. And when the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword, but the women and the little ones, the livestock, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as plunder for yourselves. And you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the Lord your God has given you And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 the way i see it having a religion is very similar to having a penis: its fine to have one but!!! please do not try and force it on me get it out in public and most certainly do not force it on kids! Great, I just spat my drink on my keyboard in fits of laughter. Please refrain from making jokes about this very serious matter! I'm afraid I'm one of the folk who really cannot get my head around the whole god thing. You can go right back to when man started making records, there have been consistent happenings that I refuse to believe a "creator" would allow to happen. Huge famines, wars, kids being born deformed or stillborn... The list is endless and my thoughts are that if this greater being does exist, he/she/it is a cruel ****** and not worthy of my time. The science approach makes no more sense than the bible but I would tend to lean that way if I had to go one way or the other. As it stands, I'm either going to hell for never visiting the big man's house and thinking impure thoughts about the woman who lives next door, or will be chucked in a hole to feed the worms. Either way it's not looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Henry, a few examples, quickly Googled, there are many, many more: Zechariah 14:1-2 Behold a day is coming for the Lord, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city Deuteronomy 20:10-14 “When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And if it responds to you peaceably and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you. But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. And when the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword, but the women and the little ones, the livestock, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as plunder for yourselves. And you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the Lord your God has given you And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18 Bit like Tesco - every little helps (itself) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 just a quick question to a post... I always thought you lot said jesus was the son of god.. and not god.... anyway... no need to prove santa is real ... i thought he was SAINT nicholas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 The Holy Trinity exaplains it all, the Father, the Son & the Holy Ghost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 santa does exist he's from nigeria everyone knows that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 *knock at the Door* Me - open door Religious type - Hello I wondered whether you'd be interested in blah blah christian, god, blah, budist, fire brimstone blah blah blah Me - Do you believe in Unicorns? Religious type - No Me - Me neither now stop wasting my time *door closed* done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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