spandit Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 According to my FEO, from conversations with his boss, I need to book and compete a DSC1 course, then get a signed letter from a mentor. I'm on the brink of giving up with trying to get the .243 for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Others will tell you - you do not need a DSC1 for a deer calibre. It is wise to get experience and a mentor and 4 stalks with 1 kill are the accepted way in Cheshire. Get in touch with BASC and they will have a word directly. So much for equalisation of practice and common approaches ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 This is exactly why ACPO have written to all Ch Officers to tell them to stop this daft practice, it does nothing for public safety and costs the police more and more to administer. If you are a member get in touch with me ASAP David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2012 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 This is exactly why ACPO have written to all Ch Officers to tell them to stop this daft practice, it does nothing for public safety and costs the police more and more to administer. If you are a member get in touch with me ASAP David I was recently told by the firearms licencing team (Devon) the same but instead of both one or the other. When you say they have been told to stop this practise, are you referring to mentoring or DSC1 or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Just a thought. Following the issue of a 'ticket' for a motoring offence, and a successful defence in court, it is not unheard of that all fines for the same offence have had to be repaid and the offences 'wiped' as the regulation which was supposedly contavened was itself deemed to be illegal. Nuff said, you can see where I'm going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 So many inconsistancies from force to force, and even FEO to FEO, thats the trouble with something so arbitrary, if you pass your driving test you can drive, it's a standard test and everyone has an equal chance, imagine if one examiner said you can have your license but you have to be accompanied or you must do advanced driver training even though there's no legal requirement. They have all the power though and because of the fear of upsetting them leading to troubles for yourself we're all too reluctant to stand up (i count myself in that cowardly group too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Playing Devil's advocate with my own posting... Just re-read the FEO's email: Hi spandit (real name changed) As you can imagine I have had numerous conversations on this with my boss. I am not trying to be obstructive at all but the way forward is this, 1) Book and complete your DSC1 course. 2) Get in writing from <named mentor> that he will be prepared to sponsor you. As soon as I get the sponsor letter from <named sponsor>, I can then get your application sorted as soon as possible. Thanks FEO He might be implying that I should do the DSC1 course as it's at the end of this month, which is a bit tight for licence issue, although not beyond the realms of possibility, but the mentor condition is the only one that is a requirement. The mentor, by the way, is someone quite well known but he hasn't agreed yet as he's a friend of a friend. Still chasing a couple of leads for another mentor locally but no luck so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Playing Devil's advocate with my own posting... Just re-read the FEO's email: He might be implying that I should do the DSC1 course as it's at the end of this month, which is a bit tight for licence issue, although not beyond the realms of possibility, but the mentor condition is the only one that is a requirement. The mentor, by the way, is someone quite well known but he hasn't agreed yet as he's a friend of a friend. Still chasing a couple of leads for another mentor locally but no luck so far Or you could read it that once you have attained the DSC1 you should send in a letter from your mentor confirming his willingness to mentor you and then and only then will your FEO process your application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Thats just silly, they expect you do take the DSC 1 AND mentoring before grant is given. If i were in the sam predicament i would need to wait 6 months to get to take a DSC course thats if i,m lucky unless i am willing to pay for digs for 3 nights and travel some distance. Do you have experience of CF or not, if not then i can understand the mentor bit, but by who are they qualified I personaly think that if you are intent on applying for a CF then it should be up to the person to arange some kind of experience whether from a friend or by other means. As David has said get in touch, they are there for us to help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Haven't joined BASC yet, was hoping to wait until my FAC was granted and not having to use them to fight my corner straight away. My FEO doesn't tend to answer e-mails straight away so I won't know until tomorrow now, I expect. Silly thing is, I was applying for CF straight away to avoid the variation cost of £28 (or whatever it is) - now they're asking me to pay another few hundred to get the DSC1 (and fuel, accommodation etc.). Perhaps I should ask my old house master at Eton to have a word as it's obvious I must be minted? My experience of CF is limited and I am in full support of the need for some training, whether through mentoring or a more formal route. My main issue with the mentoring is that my mentor could write a letter in 6 months saying how great I am, but with no proof of my marksmanship, regard to safety etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorvale55 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Recently did a variation with Staffs Police, added fox and AOLQ for 17hmr and 22lr and changed from .223 to .243 for deerstalking etc. Licence was on the mat in 3 days with no mention of DSC or mentoring. Contact BASC or your FEO and explain that there is no legal requirement for these conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Had a call from Firearms Licencing Officer at Police HQ in Lewes, think I'm going to join BASC and ask them to clarify as at the moment they don't want to issue my licence for .22LR/.17HMR without the .243 to save admin costs/time. It's also holding up my coterminous SGC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 This is exactly why ACPO have written to all Ch Officers to tell them to stop this daft practice, it does nothing for public safety and costs the police more and more to administer. If you are a member get in touch with me ASAP David Just a thought though David, if the police will not do what ACPO suggest why would they listen to BASC. A genuine question and not a dig at BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Not taken as a dig, but thnaks for saying so anyway ACPO have written asking both conditions are not used 'as standard' We need feedback of bad practice so we can go back to ACPO with it. If the authorises insist on doing daft things and thus wasting their time and we can evidence it, this gives more weight to our argument to resist increases in firearms licencing costs until the licencing system improves! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Not taken as a dig, but thnaks for saying so anyway ACPO have written asking both conditions are not used 'as standard' We need feedback of bad practice so we can go back to ACPO with it. If the authorises insist on doing daft things and thus wasting their time and we can evidence it, this gives more weight to our argument to resist increases in firearms licencing costs until the licencing system improves! David Sounds like a plan David. Can I assume that information from non BASC members would be welcomed to add weight to the evidence? Obviously one way information only as you wouldn't be able to help them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Yes any info will help Dave , preferably a copy of correspondance on ploice headed paper / copy of the licence with daft conditions... David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I recently had similar from linc's police; I've had rimfires and shotguns since I was 17/18 (can't remember which), been a member of several rifle clubs as well as the british rifle squad for a couple of years and shot vermin for those 12 years too with absolutely no problems. So I wouldn't say I'm inexperienced.... I put in for a .22/250 earlier this year which was granted with no issues whatsoever, along with aolq and my certificate finally opened (so no land inspection was required), a week or so later the owner of one of my permissions asked if I'd seen much about? I told him I hadn't but I'd seen a couple of Roe. His reply was "you can thin a few of those out!" Straight on the phone to the f.l.o "is it too late to change that to a .243?" He waffled on a bit but the gyst was that I'd need to do a dsc 1 and have the land approved I know it's not "right" but there wasn't much I could say; I'd got everything I'd asked for in the first place and for the sake of a roe or two a year it simply wasn't worth arguing about - I intend to do the dsc 1, maybe next year, I'll look into it again when I've done that. I just don't see the big difference to be honest; .019" and a hundred ft/lbs? - and both are considered suitable for foxes (my main reason for getting a c/f). I'm sure they make it up as they go along Best of luck spandit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLondon Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I recently had similar with met police and was issued with licence which was missing a mentor (I had two mentors) I rang to ask advice and was told of the ACPO guideline and asked to send licence back for removal of mentoring condition. I'd only had it a couple of days. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Good news Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLondon Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Good news Jim Thanks David,though it is frustrating that some issuing forces are still putting unfair and sometimes almost impossible conditions on people's applications. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Indeed it is But I am pleased that after all the work we have done with ACPO et al is paying dividends! Its going to be a slower process with some but its important that we all stand together on this and keep pushing the licencing teams that don't play ball to toe the ACPO line David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Tried calling BASC today but no answer so will try tomorrow. The conversation I had with the police last was that they wanted to issue all calibres at once, as to delay the .243 would be an admin cost. It's also delaying my co-terminous SGC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Any problems getting through, call my direct line 01244 573021 David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Any problems getting through, call my direct line 01244 573021David Thanks, David. Was intending to join today but we haven't got proper Internet yet and other things got in the way... Is there some way the police could issue my licence with the .22 & .17 on it but withhold the .243 without me having to pay for a variation? I'm making some progress on finding a mentor and getting some more experience but to get enough to satisfy Sussex is going to take a long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Sussex seem to be being awkward that they will allow you two section 1 firearms but not another? Daft! Section 1 is Section1 and as they say by splitting the issuing will just cost them money due to their own intransigence (which they will then bleat on about to anyone who will listen..) Ask them, politely, to show you where in the Act is says you must pass a DSC1 course to get a 243 or higher? They have clearly determined you are fit to hold Section 1 so where is their problem! If you have or can get their daft decision in writing I would love to see it David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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