Lord O War Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hmm, wondering if it is worth dismantleing the shottie in the cabinet and hiding the bolt in another place. LOL just on the news now and they said that they stole 18 semi auto shotguns like this one....er thats a side by side love HAHAHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hmm, wondering if it is worth dismantleing the shottie in the cabinet and hiding the bolt in another place. LOL just on the news now and they said that they stole 18 semi auto shotguns like this one....er thats a side by side love HAHAHAHA Tricky with an OU or SxS.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Just can't help thinking this is more than your average criminal or ganglord. That's a lot of semi autos specifically targeted. Just hope and pray I don't see these guns in news in some awful act of terrorisim. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 no matter what you do,if they want them they will get them, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 no matter what you do,if they want them they will get them, its not an excuse to be in any way lax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Just can't help thinking this is more than your average criminal or ganglord. That's a lot of semi autos specifically targeted. Just hope and pray I don't see these guns in news in some awful act of terrorisim. Karpman Most likely the work of an idiot unaware of quite what type of guns he was stealing but lets hope your prediction is not true. Obviously a semi can still be cut back at the front some but the back creates a bit of an issue lets say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 The problem with the security is the alarm, if you come though the door or window the alarm alerts the police but there will be a small area of the shop not covered by the sensors. Not an issue if the intruders come through the door or break in and stroll round the shop. I would guess they broke in trough the roof and stole guns from and area not covered by the sensor. It would explain why only semi autos went as if I remember correctly the semi autos were all in one place at Kelbrook. The same thing happened at a big motorcycle dealers in Preston, the place was covered by sensors apart from a windowless annex. They came in through a solid brick wall and took everything up till where the sensors covered, they left the more expensive desirable stuff in the main showroom as it would set off the alarm. Just my guess anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 The problem with the security is the alarm, if you come though the door or window the alarm alerts the police but there will be a small area of the shop not covered by the sensors. Not an issue if the intruders come through the door or break in and stroll round the shop. I would guess they broke in trough the roof and stole guns from and area not covered by the sensor. It would explain why only semi autos went as if I remember correctly the semi autos were all in one place at Kelbrook. The same thing happened at a big motorcycle dealers in Preston, the place was covered by sensors apart from a windowless annex. They came in through a solid brick wall and took everything up till where the sensors covered, they left the more expensive desirable stuff in the main showroom as it would set off the alarm. Just my guess anyway. There is always a way round any security system. I used to be in the tobacco wholesale business in a previous life. Back in the early 1990's we suffered two faily large losses due to break-in's. On one occasion we had a burglary through the roof one night. Alarms rang and police attended. Nothing taken and not really any attempt to take anything. No damage apart from the hole in the roof which was easily repaired. The following night the same thing. The difference this time was that there was no alarm activation and £36K worth of stock disappeared in a few minutes. It transpaired that what had happened was that the first night wasn't actually an attempt to steal anything. They simply broke in and sprayed the alarm PIR with deoderant which dries leaving a thick white covering over the PIR - exactrly the same colour as the plastic the unit is made of so not obvious. Of course the next night when they broke in the PIR didn't activate because the deoderant was obscuring it's vision. That probably isn't possible with modern units but it is a good example of the fact that someone who is determined enough will find a way to do what he wants to do. The more attractive the possible reward the more effort they will put into it. Even if they can't invent a way to get round the actual system then they will get in via the people who have legitimate access to the place. It doesn't matter how good your security is if someone simply threatens the person who has the keys. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Even if they can't invent a way to get round the actual system then they will get in via the people who have legitimate access to the place. It doesn't matter how good your security is if someone simply threatens the person who has the keys. J. Thats the bigger issue as the detection systems get better harder to crack the weak link moves... then you get to the human factor the weakest point in any system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Thats the bigger issue as the detection systems get better harder to crack the weak link moves... then you get to the human factor the weakest point in any system. A good reason for not going overboard with physical security. All you need do is to make it secure enough to deter or prevent the people who aren't that comitted to getting your guns. These people aren't going to take you hostage or threaten your family. The people who are prepared to do that can have my guns as far as I'm concerned. They're the ones who will put that bit more effort into getting round the physical security anyway so it's better that they succeed in that in the first place, in my opinion. Having said all that; it will be interesting to see the final result of the current event. Not many criminals these days want guns - unless they are quite serious criminals - and I can't imagine that the ones who do want the type which were stolen. I wonder whether they will turn up dumped somewhere? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) There is always a way round any security system. I used to be in the tobacco wholesale business in a previous life. Back in the early 1990's we suffered two faily large losses due to break-in's. On one occasion we had a burglary through the roof one night. Alarms rang and police attended. Nothing taken and not really any attempt to take anything. No damage apart from the hole in the roof which was easily repaired. The following night the same thing. The difference this time was that there was no alarm activation and £36K worth of stock disappeared in a few minutes. It transpaired that what had happened was that the first night wasn't actually an attempt to steal anything. They simply broke in and sprayed the alarm PIR with deoderant which dries leaving a thick white covering over the PIR - exactrly the same colour as the plastic the unit is made of so not obvious. Of course the next night when they broke in the PIR didn't activate because the deoderant was obscuring it's vision. That probably isn't possible with modern units but it is a good example of the fact that someone who is determined enough will find a way to do what he wants to do. The more attractive the possible reward the more effort they will put into it. Even if they can't invent a way to get round the actual system then they will get in via the people who have legitimate access to the place. It doesn't matter how good your security is if someone simply threatens the person who has the keys. J. I totally agree that what ever man can make then man can break so any security can be broken. Knowing Kelbrook as I do you could lift the roof off and reach in and help yourself to guns without even dropping through into the shop. The point I was trying to make was the reason why they went for cheap semi autos rather than some of the more expensive guns they have there and there was a more serious motive suggested in this thread than just simple thieving. My view was they lifted the roof off an area not covered by a sensor and reach through to help themselves to guns without setting off the alarm. I do remember Kelbrook had the semi autos all in one place so if they lifted the roof in that one location then that's all they could get without setting the alarm off and nothing more sinister. If they went for the expensive stuff or the over and unders then the alarm would be triggered and seeing as it is a long single track road that's the last thing they would want. No doubt they could have implemented a plan that would have netted them the entire contents of the shop but I just think they went for easy option number one and exploited the weak spot rather than anything else more sinister. Edited October 31, 2013 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I totally agree that what ever man can make then man can break so any security can be broken. Knowing Kelbrook as I do you could lift the roof off and reach in and help yourself to guns without even dropping through into the shop. The point I was trying to make was the reason why they went for cheap semi autos rather than some of the more expensive guns they have there and there was a more serious motive suggested in this thread than just simple thieving. My view was they lifted the roof off an area not covered by a sensor and reach through to help themselves to guns without setting off the alarm. I do remember Kelbrook had the semi autos all in one place so if they lifted the roof in that one location then that's all they could get without setting the alarm off and nothing more sinister. If they went for the expensive stuff or the over and unders then the alarm would be triggered and seeing as it is a long single track road that's the last thing they would want. No doubt they could have implemented a plan that would have netted them the entire contents of the shop but I just think they went for easy option number one and exploited the weak spot rather than anything else more sinister. You got it in one, Timps. Arms can only stretch so far when your growping in the dark and that seems to me to be what happened also that would be why no cartridges were stolen. from Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 If it was so obvious to customers it was so vulnerable why didn't they do something about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg123 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Don't the guns in the shop all have security cable running through the triggers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I woud have thought all the guns would be paked away in a vault or safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Too many guns for that. The gunshop itself would have been considered a vault. The walls looked secure enough and the door is substantial. The roof is always a weak point which many people overlook. That is why my garage alarm covers the doors, interior, with extra sensors covering the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Too many guns for that. The gunshop itself would have been considered a vault. The walls looked secure enough and the door is substantial.The roof is always a weak point which many people overlook. That is why my garage alarm covers the doors, interior, with extra sensors covering the roof. Very sensible but if you can do it why couldn't they, the question needs to be asked are they really fit to be an RFD if they allowed this type of theft to take place so easily.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 tigger - I always assumed that their roof would somehow be re-inforced and they would have a sophisticated alarm system covering entry from any point. Having been in there quite a few times, I can't honestly say I spent a lot of time looking at their roof - I was always looking at the guns. Given the amount of expensive guns they have - money on security would be well spent. That said - Tim McAvoy's shop got robbed. Main road position - never found out how they entered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) RFD's get a thorough inspection ! But the inspectors can only cover so many bases. Anyone remover the gun room at venom in Birmingham ? Now that was secure! A concrete cell in the middle of the first floor (centre) of a large alarmed building! (Mid 90's) but it seems keel rook were unlucky, no carts stolen as heavy and hard to move by a couple of blokes on foot they may have gone for autos as that's what they could get, thought they could sell. Hopefully they will be recovered quickly before they get used for anything sinister. Edited October 31, 2013 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 As Said Before, if they want anything, They just steal it. come on, Nothing is not steal-able. if it looks good they take it.. Nothing is 100% safe.. They just look for the weakest point, try it on your house, there are loads of ways in.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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