The Cruel cut

[ferguson_tom]

Did anyone else see this program on Channel 4 last night about female genital mutilation. I have heard of it before but never realised quite how bad and horrific this practice was and how many girls in the UK are at risk.

 

One shocking fact was that although been illegal for over 20 years no one has been prosecuted. France and Netherlands are extremely strict on it with regular inspections of the girls at risk etc and good guidelines for the authorities to follow. It was mentioned girls from stricter places like France and Netherlands and being sent over to the UK to be cut.

 

Also typical of the UK government they have recently gifted £35 million to stop this practice from happening in Africa but still not put a stop to it here!!!

 

I must admit all my info on this has come from this one TV program so only conveying the facts from that, however still doesnt change the fact nothing makes this practice acceptable. There is an e petition for the government to stop it. If you have the time i think its one of the E petitions thats actually worth putting your name on.

 

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52740

 

[filzee]

It is a horrifying practice that's for sure. Unfortunately in certain cultures it is deemed acceptable.

 

I'm pretty sure it is illegal in almost if not every country on the planet.

[The Mighty Prawn]

It was hideous, I found it interesting the group of young lads who didnt know anything about what it actually involved and how horrified they were when it was shown to them - I did feel hope that they would not allow their children to be cut but also fear the community pressure may get to them when the time comes. Mankind and men specifically are capable of some terrible things, subjugating women in the worst way possible

[aris]

Male genital mutilation is still legal though.

[Sprackles]

Male genital mutilation is still legal though.

Personally speaking I think all forms should be banned unless medically necessary and to hell with culture and tradition.

If a child wants to respect their religious or cultural tradition then let them choose when they are old enough.

[GOLDCREST]

+1

[ferguson_tom]

I think like many it just baffles me why any parent especially a mother who knows the pain its caused would put their child through this. This is purely a form of sexual abuse as there is no other reason to do it apart from making sex uncomfortable for women so they do not play away from home as get no pleasure from it, there is no religious link to it and its not mentioned in any of the holy books (i think) Another way of men controlling, owning and abusing women and a practice that should be stopped, maybe trying to stop it in African villages were the majority see it is acceptable is a bit beyond our reach but cracking down on it over here on our own doorstep is not which is why i support the campaign and put my signature on the petition.

 

I hate to say and dont want to make it go off topic but if this was happening to young white girls the parents and all involved would be thrown in jail.

[grrclark]

The fact that it continues to be promoted by the mothers who have gone through this demonstrate the power of cultural, religious and societal beliefs, they are held in much higher regard and importance than the individual.

 

Although I agree that it is a despicable practice we have to be careful we don't attempt to impose our societal or cultural beliefs on other countries, fair enough in this country we absolutely should enforce the outlawing of this barbaric behaviour, but we need to be careful taking that overseas.

[aris]

Personally speaking I think all forms should be banned unless medically necessary and to hell with culture and tradition.

If a child wants to respect their religious or cultural tradition then let them choose when they are old enough.

 

Many cultures espouse circumcision. The tradition came into effect because it was noted that males who did this had fewer infections later in life. In some southern African cultures, circumcision is done when a man is a teenager - in a coming-of-age type ceremony . Unfortunately many of them are done in no-so hygienic conditions - and dozens of people die a year. Recently it has been found that circumcised males have a much lower chance of contracting HIV through unprotected sex. Not an issue in the west, but a huge issue in Africa.

 

As far as I know, there are no medical reasons for female circumcision.

[overandunder2012]

chopping bits of people cant be a good idea

[Sprackles]

 

Many cultures espouse circumcision. The tradition came into effect because it was noted that males who did this had fewer infections later in life. In some southern African cultures, circumcision is done when a man is a teenager - in a coming-of-age type ceremony . Unfortunately many of them are done in no-so hygienic conditions - and dozens of people die a year. Recently it has been found that circumcised males have a much lower chance of contracting HIV through unprotected sex. Not an issue in the west, but a huge issue in Africa.

 

As far as I know, there are no medical reasons for female circumcision.

Yes I have heard this argument many times over, however, in the US where it was almost universally practiced,they have the same and in some studies higher rates of infection than in the UK where it is not common practice.

Children also die each year when the op is performed in hospital so all in all, if it aint broke...don't fix it.

[aris]

Yes I have heard this argument many times over, however, in the US where it was almost universally practiced,they have the same and in some studies higher rates of infection than in the UK where it is not common practice.

Children also die each year when the op is performed in hospital so all in all, if it aint broke...don't fix it.

 

In todays world, and with proper hygiene - yes - it is not necessary unless there are specific or re-occuring problems (it happens). As for HIV transmission - this is statistically significant, though again in the west it is not as much of an issue.

[ehb102]

Male genital mutilation is still legal though.

 

It is, and I personally wouldn't put a child through it, but female genital mutilation and male circumcision are really not comparable past the academic point of altering the body, which could also be applied to pierced ears. Male circumcision is mostly benign. Female genital mutilation is most definitely not benign.

[ferguson_tom]

I think the argument for male circumcision is a separate one as to be honest makes no real difference to the mens life or cause any lasting effects assuming it goes without problems. The female 'circumcision' is mutilation the girls can have major issues the whole point is so the women do not enjoy sex and do not play away but also causes problems with childbirth, periods etc. If you watch the documentary you will quickly realise having a bit of loose skin on you knob snipped off is nothing compared to what happens to these girls.

[keg]

Listened to a Radio 4 prog recently on this very subject and they interviewed a young lady who had been circumcised in this country not too long ago and her own mother had held her down..........

She said it was far more prolific than people imagined.

[Paul223]

Exactly what is cut off / out?

[guest1957]

Exactly what is cut off / out?

 

That depends on different cultural sub-set: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM#Classification

[grrclark]

you would get a more accurate answer on google Paul as no doubt it differs, but the lips are cut and then then everything stitched together leaving just a very small entrance to allow fluids to pass, but it is all incredibly roughly done.

 

I recall seeing something on this 20 odd years ago and thinking it was horrific, if i recall correctly at that time the 'doctor' used a broken shard of glass as his scalpel.

[Paul223]

 

That depends on different cultural sub-set: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM#Classification

OMG

[ehb102]

Sometimes the hood of the clittoris is cut off, more often the clittoris is cut out. Then the vagina is sewn up. This can be cut open by her husband on their wedding night. Often it rips further when the woman gives birth.

[goodo123]

I don't care what culture/religion your from, this is sick and twisted, to do this to your son/daughter makes you a very sick person who deserves life behind bars. It's just another reason why I don't believe in any religion. It is the root of a lot of madness and behavior like this.

[p@cman]

Quite simply, barbaric practice

[ordnance]

It happens in the UK sometimes girls are taken away and it performed. The government knows about this and hasn't the courage to do anything about it in case they upset some religious groups. Female mutilation can be more extreme that male circumcisions but both are child abuse as far as I am concerned unless done for medical reasons.

 

 

New York (CNN) -- Two more infants have contracted the herpes virus after undergoing an ultra-Orthodox Jewish type of circumcision, which has been linked to the spread of the potentially deadly virus to newborn boys, according to the New York City Health Department.

In the ritual, known as metzitzah b'peh, after removing the foreskin of the penis the person performing the procedure places his mouth briefly over the wound, sucking a small amount of blood out, which is discarded. Antibacterial ointment is applied and the wound is bandaged. The health department says the procedure is dangerous because the contact with the mouth could transmit diseases such as herpes.

 

 

The study, by researcher Dan Bollinger, concluded that approximately 117 neonatal deaths due directly or indirectly to circumcision occur annually in the United States, or one out of every 77 male neonatal deaths. This compares with 44 neonatal deaths from suffocation, 8 in automobile accidents and 115 from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, all of which losses have aroused deep concern among child health authorities and stimulated special programs to reduce mortality. (Remember those red noses?) Why, the study asks, has the even greater number of deaths from circumcision not aroused the same response?

 

 

To stop killing boys, stop circumcising them

The solution to the problem, Bollinger suggests, does not lie in improving surgical techniques or giving operator better training. “The problem is this: circumcision is a killer of baby boys. No one, except for some human-rights activists, is trying to save them. It is unlikely that improving circumcision techniques would eliminate these deaths. No matter how skilled the physician is, some deaths will always occur.” The only effective way to eliminate this death toll and save these boys is to admit that circumcision is unnecessary and potentially harmful surgery and stop performing it on neonates and minors. This would give all boys the chance to decide for themselves whether they wish to be circumcised, and (if they do) would allow them to choose it for themselves as adults, when the surgical risks are so much less severe.

Edited November 7, 2013 by ordnance

[guest1957]

OMG

 

Horrifying, isn't it.

[Paul223]

 

Horrifying, isn't it.

Yes