thousand's of pigeons hit devon

[Catamong]

156,350 woodpigeon SW and W between 07:00 and 11:00. Passage visible over 20-25km wide front stretching from Pontypool to at least the middle of the estuary. Approx 60% of birds over the sea / coastal plane; the rest over the hills. Flight heingt from 100-2,000m +. A tad spectacular at times.

 

My goodness, are you sure it wasn't 156,340 or perhaps 156,360..?

 

How on earth can a flock that size be counted........was somebody standing there with a clicker..?

 

I'm not convinced that Woodies do migrate in and out of this Country, I've seen no evidence of it and I've been shooting them since the early 70's.

 

The numbers rise and fall in my area throughout the seasons, and contrary to popular belief, I've found that a cold snap with snow cover is the last thing you need if you want decent numbers of birds, they simply move out of the area to somewhere less snowy.

 

I believe they do move around Europe quite a bit, but whether they migrate in and out of the UK, I suppose the only way to find out for sure is to have birds ringed and released in Scandanavia or wherever, and then see how many turn up over here?

 

Cat.

[goober]

cooooper1

 

It would be useful if you could inform us of your location. I see that others have accessed your profile to discover where it might be without success.

Pontypool is the other side of Newport to my location,pigeons travel down through here and from Chepstow.

[goober]

My goodness, are you sure it wasn't 156,340 or perhaps 156,360..?

 

How on earth can a flock that size be counted........was somebody standing there with a clicker..?

 

I'm not convinced that Woodies do migrate in and out of this Country, I've seen no evidence of it and I've been shooting them since the early 70's.

 

The numbers rise and fall in my area throughout the seasons, and contrary to popular belief, I've found that a cold snap with snow cover is the last thing you need if you want decent numbers of birds, they simply move out of the area to somewhere less snowy.

 

I believe they do move around Europe quite a bit, but whether they migrate in and out of the UK, I suppose the only way to find out for sure is to have birds ringed and released in Scandanavia or wherever, and then see how many turn up over here?

 

Cat.

This count was from a local bird watcher and as you,I'd like to know how they get such an accurate count?

As for migration,these birds are from Scandinavia passing through to France/Spain and I don't think it involves our resident birds greatly at all.

As for never seeing these huge numbers,I think it's down to location and I must be under a "main vein" but even so I was amazed that most experienced long time shooters down here had never seen the migrations.this is my 6th year tracking them and it's like clockwork other than weather influences.

[bevs]

This count was from a local bird watcher and as you,I'd like to know how they get such an accurate count?

As for migration,these birds are from Scandinavia passing through to France/Spain and I don't think it involves our resident birds greatly at all.

As for never seeing these huge numbers,I think it's down to location and I must be under a "main vein" but even so I was amazed that most experienced long time shooters down here had never seen the migrations.this is my 6th year tracking them and it's like clockwork other than weather influences.

yes same time every year Give or take a week.

[JDog]

Catamong

 

There is no need to be so sceptical about these migrations. I have now been convinced of their authenticity. They appear to be a regular occurrence every Autumn using the same lines and routes. As for not seeing the pigeons they are travelling between 1000' and 2000' high and the naked eye may well not pick them up.

[yickdaz]

This count was from a local bird watcher and as you,I'd like to know how they get such an accurate count?

As for migration,these birds are from Scandinavia passing through to France/Spain and I don't think it involves our resident birds greatly at all.

As for never seeing these huge numbers,I think it's down to location and I must be under a "main vein" but even so I was amazed that most experienced long time shooters down here had never seen the migrations.this is my 6th year tracking them and it's like clockwork other than weather influences.

they track birds crossing the channel from Britain through france over the pyrenees then into spain Portugal border and a good wack of the birds end up in the sierra san pedro a massive reserve in mid spain right out in the countryside they get shot in big numbers over there in winter

so they definatley migrate from here I have put vids on here in the past showing them shooting pigeons in spain

 

http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/features/532826/Do_woodpigeon_migrate.html read the continental corridor paragrapth

[Dr D]

Catamong

why so sceptical? Fact: Pigeons cross the Irish sea every year from Scotland and the borders to N. Ireland. usually middle of this month. Although things may be different this year with the acorn glut, mild weather and late autumn. The English channel to France is about the same distance as Scotland to NI? Don't know much about England. But surely the Scotch and Irish birds are not that different to the English?

[karpman]

http://blx1.bto.org/birdfacts/results/map6700.htm

 

I don't think there has been any real in depth study's into wood pigeon.

 

One there numerous and two they don't get caught in midst nets very often.

 

Karpman

[yickdaz]

these birds that are ringed not all of them are gonna be shot so how can they get an accurate count when only small portion of them are recovered there could be hundreds or thousands that have not been recovered that have travelled from Britain into france spain etc

question for everyone how many ringed woodies have you shot in your time pigeon shooting I personally have only shot 4 ringed woodies in 27 years 3 of them were from the same area over a 6 year period between 2007 and 2012 I have all the reports on the birds and kept the rings

[goober]

Catamong

why so sceptical? Fact: Pigeons cross the Irish sea every year from Scotland and the borders to N. Ireland. usually middle of this month. Although things may be different this year with the acorn glut, mild weather and late autumn. The English channel to France is about the same distance as Scotland to NI? Don't know much about England. But surely the Scotch and Irish birds are not that different to the English?

When it's mentioned of birds fighting to Ireland,would they be Scottish or Scandinavian birds crossing through?

Also if there are large numbers do they stay or pass through?

Anyone able to shed some light?

[Catamong]

Catamong

why so sceptical? Fact: Pigeons cross the Irish sea every year from Scotland and the borders to N. Ireland. usually middle of this month. Although things may be different this year with the acorn glut, mild weather and late autumn. The English channel to France is about the same distance as Scotland to NI? Don't know much about England. But surely the Scotch and Irish birds are not that different to the English?

 

Of course many birds will move across the water, be it the Irish Sea or the English Channel, what I'm not convinced about is the mass migration of vast flocks of 100,000 plus birds.

 

You would certainly know about it if such numbers descended on your patch, the difference would be very noticeable.

 

And I can honestly say that I have not noticed such a difference in numbers, but I do live a long way from the coast, numbers in my area have been dropping now, year on year for the past 10 years, there simply aren't the number of birds around that there used to be.

 

That's hardly surprising if they have the option of spending the Winter down in sunny Spain..??

 

Cat.

[cooooper1]

Catamong

 

There is no need to be so sceptical about these migrations. I have now been convinced of their authenticity. They appear to be a regular occurrence every Autumn using the same lines and routes. As for not seeing the pigeons they are travelling between 1000' and 2000' high and the naked eye may well not pick them up.

 

hi jdog,

like i said in an earlier post i must have seen 20,000 plus pigeons flying right over my house,most of them around 70 metres high but i do live on a mountain above a valley below so if your in that valley then 1000 sounds right but up where i`am 70m,the other thing i noticed was most the birds looked young birds as in no pink/red chests on them all grey chests.i also seen a flock of around 3000-4000 landing on the mountian looking for blueberrys.i`ve never heard of pigeon migration or ever seen anything like yesterday.

[kippylawkid]

these birds that are ringed not all of them are gonna be shot so how can they get an accurate count when only small portion of them are recovered there could be hundreds or thousands that have not been recovered that have travelled from Britain into france spain etc

question for everyone how many ringed woodies have you shot in your time pigeon shooting I personally have only shot 4 ringed woodies in 27 years 3 of them were from the same area over a 6 year period between 2007 and 2012 I have all the reports on the birds and kept the rings

Interesting. What was the story on the ringed birds? Where were they ringed etc? I've shot my share of birds but never seen or heard of any ringed birds in Northumberland? We have seasonal influxes of birds, usually when the weather turns Nov/Dec and they turn into rape mode and flock up massively.

[turbo33]

 

Of course many birds will move across the water, be it the Irish Sea or the English Channel, what I'm not convinced about is the mass migration of vast flocks of 100,000 plus birds.

Well, there are quite a few of us on here now that have seen these large flocks, this time of year, for some time now.

 

You would certainly know about it if such numbers descended on your patch, the difference would be very noticeable.

 

That's the point Cat, they don't, they fly straight over/past.

 

And I can honestly say that I have not noticed such a difference in numbers, but I do live a long way from the coast, numbers in my area have been dropping now, year on year for the past 10 years, there simply aren't the number of birds around that there used to be.

 

Its the same round here. Its my view the "resident" population is generally lower due to who knows what? Changes in agriculture, climate,disease, shooting? Most people you talk to of 50+years can remember consistently getting large bags of pigeon. Not now But its not just pigeons, Sparrows used to be in abundance when I was a kid, starlings too. Hardly see them anymore, and I am in the same area and environment that I always have been.

 

 

 

That's hardly surprising if they have the option of spending the Winter down in sunny Spain..??

 

Cat.

 

If this rain continues, its something I'm considering

[Teal]

A bit of harsh weather in Scotland and many tens of thousands of woodpigeons make their way over to Ireland. Exactly the same with woodcock, snipe and to a lesser extent geese. Perhaps they know something we don't and we are in for a cold snap.

[goober]

Cooooper1,Bevs,just checked weather and may be another run through in the morning if there's any left to migrate.Ill be keeping an eye out over here.

[bevs]

ok goober i'm working away to moz but i will keep alookout in the morning.

[yickdaz]

Interesting. What was the story on the ringed birds? Where were they ringed etc? I've shot my share of birds but never seen or heard of any ringed birds in Northumberland? We have seasonal influxes of birds, usually when the weather turns Nov/Dec and they turn into rape mode and flock up massively.

just looking for the info I got on 2 of the birds one ringed bird was shot 13 miles from ring site the other 4 miles from ring site I can,t find the info on the other 2 but I remember they were shot less than 5 miles from ring site the area in which I shot them all was on the outskirts of Liverpool ringed in sefton park which is in the city centre of Liverpool

[Fisherman Mike]

Massive flocks of Pigeons were picked up on RAF radar crossing the channel and North sea some years back...eye witness report on the Kent and Lincolnshire coast confirmed these sightings of birds at altitude........They turned out to be fieldfares and Redwings.

[Fisherman Mike]

That is quite likely though there are some on PW who do not belive in the migration at all. In my uneducated and ill-informed view not very many of those 156000 will stay in Devon but will cross into France and behave as you suggest.

I beg to differ with respect, to my knowledge of 45 years of serious Birding migration out of the UK of its resident breeding population doesn't occur in significant numbers..the movement of Pigeon from the North of England to the Midlands and South each year in large numbers is well documented though. When we get large numbers around here in colder winters they seem to congregate in large roosts in the Forest of Dean, break up into smaller flocks and continually be on the move.

 

This might interest a few..

 

http://www.birdmigration.co.uk/wordpress/?p=97

[Catamong]

Yes, interesting comments from Mike, these echo what I have always thought and what a number of very well respected pigeon shooters throughout the 50's and 60's put forward in various books written at the time.

 

These are not in fact mass influxes of foreign birds but simply birds moving South to get away from impending bad weather..?

 

I've spent a lot of time in Northern France throughout the Winter period, and I'm always surprised at the relatively low numbers of birds molesting the now commonplace fields of Winter Rape.

 

On the way down to the tunnel you can see them piling into the fields alongside the M20, but once you get across the Channel, OK, there are a few, but nothing like the numbers that over-Winter here.

 

I reckon the habitat doesn't suit them, in that there are far fewer safe roosting woods like they have over here, the froggies will hammer them relentlessly in their roosting woods throughout the Winter, that simply doesn't happen here, apart from a couple of weekends in February.

 

And, don't forget, France has a closed season for Woodies, from mid March to mid August, you'd think it would be a pigeon shangri-la..?? I reckon they don't like the smell of garlic..?

 

Cat.

[blue smokey]

Starting to show thousands of pigeons in Ireland already, Does anyone else think the birds are coming across to us instead of the other direction across seas.

[JDog]

The correct use of the word 'migration' is a movement from one region to another. That has quite definitely happened. The pigeons have even moved between countries as large numbers have been reported moving from the South Wales coast to Devon.

 

Northern France may miss some of the migration as the pigeon flocks appear to come across to the UK from Northern Europe and Scandinavia. Once in the UK they have been seen travelling across the country to build up in South Wales then across the Bristol Channel. It is certainly a fair distance across the sea but I understand that they head to the extreme South of France, over the Pyrenees and into Spain and Portugal.

 

Of course all of the birds seen crossing the Bristol Channel could be immigrants into this country and the theory that the resident population does not migrate in any great numbers may still hold.

[kippylawkid]

just looking for the info I got on 2 of the birds one ringed bird was shot 13 miles from ring site the other 4 miles from ring site I can,t find the info on the other 2 but I remember they were shot less than 5 miles from ring site the area in which I shot them all was on the outskirts of Liverpool ringed in sefton park which is in the city centre of Liverpool

Thanks for that. I wondered if they were "foreigners" either from Scotland or Scandinavia. Obviously a local project. Would be interesting if the RSPB could put some of their £ Millions into a woodpigeon survey instead of wasting it on other anti-shooting projects.

[goober]

A few thousand passed through again today,not the numbers previously.

I believe the migration to be coming to an end down here in south Wales.