Zeroing

[Bansk65]

I've just aquired a .22 Ruger and a CZ .17HMR, whats the best distance for zeroing the weapons?

[JonathanL]

I've just aquired a .22 Ruger and a CZ .17HMR, whats the best distance for zeroing the weapons?

Depends. What distances will you be likely shooting them at and at what?

 

J.

[welshwarrior]

Hopefully you bought sporting rifles not weapons!!!

 

Zero at the range you will shoot at most on you permission.

[kent]

.22 lr 50 yds. 17 hmr 100 yds. These make the best use of the trajectory curve of both guns. Zero too far out and you will get a lot of misses over the top at peak trajectory above the line of sight. Conveniently enough 50 yds and 100 yds ranges are common which is a forgotten factor that effects many shooters

[Dekers]

Depends. What distances will you be likely shooting them at and at what?

 

J.

 

 

Hopefully you bought sporting rifles not weapons!!!

 

Zero at the range you will shoot at most on you permission.

 

 

It doesn't matter where the best trajectory may be on any ammo, you zero at the distance you shoot most of your quarry, what's the point of zeroing a HMR at 100 yards if you have one permission and all your bunnies sit 75 yards away!

 

And .22lr trajectory will be dramatically effected by the vast array of ammo available anyway!

Edited December 23, 2013 by Dekers

[Bansk65]

Thanks for the replies, 50 yards .22 and 100 yards .17 would be about what the distances i would be using them. Theres a 25 metre indoor range, localish i just thought i might be able to do them there and make slight adjustment in the field

[Glenshooter]

With my 22LR rifle and subs, I'd be shooting about 0.25" high at 25yds with a 50 yd zero. Guess if you try that, you shouldn't be too far out.

Beyond that, a drop of nearly an inch (0.7") at 60yds and 2.5 at 75yds can be expected.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Glenshooter

[kent]

 

It doesn't matter where the best trajectory may be on any ammo, you zero at the distance you shoot most of your quarry, what's the point of zeroing a HMR at 100 yards if you have one permission and all your bunnies sit 75 yards away!

 

And .22lr trajectory will be dramatically effected by the vast array of ammo available anyway!

In answer because you will still be OK at 75 yds peak trajectory is normally about 85 ish depending on scope height. Zeroing with the ammo you use goes without saying.

 

with both / either guns you learn the when and were to adjust your aim. Game is were you find it if you don't put out food for them at a know measured range. Mixing up zero ranges to suit means you will never learn the trajectory curve or will have to range every shot and adjust for it.

 

Ok I am going to stalk through these fields and shoot all the bunnies at near as darn it 75 yds , it just don't work that way.

 

with practice and intimate inbuilt knowledge gained the .22 is good any range up to just over 100yds with but one zero. If it be 6" or 8" low at 100 yds matters not as long as the nut behind the butt knows which it is with his setup

[Dekers]

In answer because you will still be OK at 75 yds peak trajectory is normally about 85 ish depending on scope height. Zeroing with the ammo you use goes without saying.

 

with both / either guns you learn the when and were to adjust your aim. Game is were you find it if you don't put out food for them at a know measured range. Mixing up zero ranges to suit means you will never learn the trajectory curve or will have to range every shot and adjust for it.

 

Ok I am going to stalk through these fields and shoot all the bunnies at near as darn it 75 yds , it just don't work that way.

 

with practice and intimate inbuilt knowledge gained the .22 is good any range up to just over 100yds with but one zero. If it be 6" or 8" low at 100 yds matters not as long as the nut behind the butt knows which it is with his setup

 

Pitty you can't read!

[simon1979]

I do my .22 rim at 80 yards and my 17hmr at 120 yards

Atb

Simon

[kent]

 

Pitty you can't read!

 

Hey you asked a question even though you used an exclamation mark were is should have been a question mark so pots and kettles I think Dekers

[Dekers]

 

Hey you asked a question even though you used an exclamation mark were is should have been a question mark so pots and kettles I think Dekers

 

Pity you can't read, and it was a rhetorical question which does not necessarily require a question mark anyway!

 

Obviously comprehension is a problem for you as well,

 

...what's the point of zeroing a HMR at 100 yards if you have one permission and all your bunnies sit 75 yards away!

 

Your response was nothing to do with the question!

[kent]

That spot does not exist though, bunnies sit were they please and will easy hop to the side some giving a 100 yds shots and some 50yds, even if the hedge were they live is 75 yds away! it is a simple as using your 100 yds zeroed 17hmr and aiming at their head (allowing wind as applicable) and squeezing the trigger! Are these bunnies nailed down at 75 yds? that sounds most unsporting! Bunnies tend to move forwards backwards and to any darn place they wish, knowing and making best use of the curve is were its at, bullets aint lazers, this is just as well actually as the peak trajectory should just carry on increasing if they were.

To explain to those not yet aware;

A Hmr (or almost any other rifles) zeroed dead on at 100 yds will actually cut through the line of sight (exact point of aim) prior to the 100 yds. up to this prior point the impact of the bullet will always be low decreasingly so until it cuts through the point of aim at a range shorter than 100yds (the exact difference in this first crossing depending on scope centre to bore measurement). It then rises above the point of aim to shoot high of the point of aim until it makes peak trajectory over (with a commonly set up HMR this will be about 80-85 yds) before descending again to cut exactly though the line of sight at the 100 yds. After the said 100yds the gun will shoot progressively lower than the point of aim, gradually so at first but the curve will increase as the speed of the bullet gradually fades.

 

The trick is Getting Peak trajectory over line of sight as small an error over as you can so yet high enough to push your range out so you can still kill your target with a clean dead on the head aim point ie apply no hold under at peak. Rather than actually zero spot on at 75yds because that's were your bunnies are nailed down you can still shoot them very effectively if you ever come across any at exactly that range " dunno maybe someone put some big old glue pads down at that point?" Anyhow you wont miss them at 75 due to trajectory with a HMR, that the important bit!

 

So their are only two occasions you hold over your target at very short range when performing a "coupe de grace" perhaps (dead on the end of the barrel this will equate to the distance between the scope centre and the bore). the other is the distance past the 100 yds when the bullet drops below the point were a dead on hold will achieve a clean shot because it is shooting too low. You never hold under just except there is a point were you will shoot slightly high (don't try and estimate were it is you will invariably miss the spot and shoot too low)

 

Now Why not zero a .22 lr at 100 yds? or a HMR at 160? Because the peak trajectory will be way to high! With a .22 sub for instance your going to be 2-4" over the top of a 50 yds shot and heaven knows were the rest of the way. If you were shooting at say an 8" target it might just be feasible though, if its a 2" one it will be darn near impossible

 

The exact range you choose depends on how high your scope is mounted and the trajectory of your ammo. The 50 yd and 100yd assumes a scope in std mounts using sub sonic .22 and .17hmr 17 or 20 grain. The individual might wish to play with his outfit but I suggest that common range shouldn't come into it only peak trajectory. I suggest you will not find a lot different than the above for staying on a bunnies head, if you chest shoot you might get a tad further out and tolerate a bit more high shooting at peak.

 

Is there an instance were you should consider zeroing specific to the shot being taken? Yes, target shooting or hunting beyond the range were hold is effective and you know the range though this is not a "set up zero" it simply dialing in the adjustment for that shot then returning to the set zero.

 

A big plus point is 100 yds and 50 yds ranges abound at clubs etc. Zeroing X high at Y range well that's just an estimate to were your bullets will land at further ranges- its not a zero! its at best a check and one many of us use. Zero your .222 say at 140 yds to get the most of the curve then test to see were your group goes at 70 yds or whatever you have available at your yard etc. record it then quick checks can be made if the gun / scope has taken a bump. The big issue with this is 1/4" at 25 yds is 1" at 100 yds and 2" of error at 200 yds - only about a bullet hole width though at 25! 1/4 moa clicks are hard to spot if you adjust or your out by that amount. This touches on the reason why long range shooters often preffer 1/8 moa clicks and why airgun scopes should often be better with full 1 moa per click

Edited December 24, 2013 by kent

[Dekers]

That spot does not exist though, bunnies sit were they please and will easy hop to the side some giving a 100 yds shots and some 50yds, even if the hedge were they live is 75 yds away! it is a simple as using your 100 yds zeroed 17hmr and aiming at their head (allowing wind as applicable) and squeezing the trigger! Are these bunnies nailed down at 75 yds? that sounds most unsporting! Bunnies tend to move forwards backwards and to any darn place they wish, knowing and making best use of the curve is were its at, bullets aint lazers, this is just as well actually as the peak trajectory should just carry on increasing if they were.

To explain to those not yet aware;

A Hmr (or almost any other rifles) zeroed dead on at 100 yds will actually cut through the line of sight (exact point of aim) prior to the 100 yds. up to this prior point the impact of the bullet will always be low decreasingly so until it cuts through the point of aim at a range shorter than 100yds (the exact difference in this first crossing depending on scope centre to bore measurement). It then rises above the point of aim to shoot high of the point of aim until it makes peak trajectory over (with a commonly set up HMR this will be about 80-85 yds) before descending again to cut exactly though the line of sight at the 100 yds. After the said 100yds the gun will shoot progressively lower than the point of aim, gradually so at first but the curve will increase as the speed of the bullet gradually fades.

 

The trick is Getting Peak trajectory over line of sight as small an error over as you can so yet high enough to push your range out so you can still kill your target with a clean dead on the head aim point ie apply no hold under at peak. Rather than actually zero spot on at 75yds because that's were your bunnies are nailed down you can still shoot them very effectively if you ever come across any at exactly that range " dunno maybe someone put some big old glue pads down at that point?" Anyhow you wont miss them at 75 due to trajectory with a HMR, that the important bit!

 

So their are only two occasions you hold over your target at very short range when performing a "coupe de grace" perhaps (dead on the end of the barrel this will equate to the distance between the scope centre and the bore). the other is the distance past the 100 yds when the bullet drops below the point were a dead on hold will achieve a clean shot because it is shooting too low. You never hold under just except there is a point were you will shoot slightly high (don't try and estimate were it is you will invariably miss the spot and shoot too low)

 

Now Why not zero a .22 lr at 100 yds? or a HMR at 160? Because the peak trajectory will be way to high! With a .22 sub for instance your going to be 2-4" over the top of a 50 yds shot and heaven knows were the rest of the way. If you were shooting at say an 8" target it might just be feasible though, if its a 2" one it will be darn near impossible

 

The exact range you choose depends on how high your scope is mounted and the trajectory of your ammo. The 50 yd and 100yd assumes a scope in std mounts using sub sonic .22 and .17hmr 17 or 20 grain. The individual might wish to play with his outfit but I suggest that common range shouldn't come into it only peak trajectory. I suggest you will not find a lot different than the above for staying on a bunnies head, if you chest shoot you might get a tad further out and tolerate a bit more high shooting at peak.

 

Is there an instance were you should consider zeroing specific to the shot being taken? Yes, target shooting or hunting beyond the range were hold is effective and you know the range though this is not a "set up zero" it simply dialing in the adjustment for that shot then returning to the set zero.

 

A big plus point is 100 yds and 50 yds ranges abound at clubs etc. Zeroing X high at Y range well that's just an estimate to were your bullets will land at further ranges- its not a zero! its at best a check and one many of us use. Zero your .222 say at 140 yds to get the most of the curve then test to see were your group goes at 70 yds or whatever you have available at your yard etc. record it then quick checks can be made if the gun / scope has taken a bump. The big issue with this is 1/4" at 25 yds is 1" at 100 yds and 2" of error at 200 yds - only about a bullet hole width though at 25! 1/4 moa clicks are hard to spot if you adjust or your out by that amount

 

You have just proved my comments about reading and comprehension.

[kent]

You have just proved my comments about reading and comprehension.

You might well think that but try commenting on the content - I cant type to good either BUT I KNOW HOW TO SET A RIFLE UP (the important bit of this). I cant knit, my singing voice is terrible, I wish I could shoot better with the shotgun but I can handle a rifle

[Dekers]

You might well think that but try commenting on the content - I cant type to good either BUT I KNOW HOW TO SET A RIFLE UP (the important bit of this). I cant knit, my singing voice is terrible, I wish I could shoot better with the shotgun but I can handle a rifle

 

You are unbelievable, reading and comprehension, you still don't see it do you!?

Edited December 24, 2013 by Dekers

[remmyman]

Just look up trajectory tables for your chosen rifle/ammo combo and then set up for MPBR simples

 

Regards remmyman

[kent]

You are unbelievable, reading and comprehension, you still don't see it do you!?

Cant be bothered, perhaps if I gained a better education from a normal home when I was a kid I could have grown up to be a rat catcher? But no I am very happy were I am in life now thanks. Sat in a nice home with two great kids who will have nothing barring them from the highest level of jobs and with a family with more than enough assets to give them a good start.

I hate this sort of thing, do I spend an age editing and proof reading? No! Do I pick people up on poor spelling and grama? No its petty and shows a spiteful nature from little people who cant pick fault with what is being said

[remmyman]

Come on guys, please, it is Christmas after all said and done

 

Regards remmyman

[kent]

Just look up trajectory tables for your chosen rifle/ammo combo and then set up for MPBR simples

 

Regards remmyman

Maximum point blank range (MPBR) always needs tailoring to individual requirements, in principle this is all I suggest. A head shot on a bunny by day is obviously different to a chest shot on a fox at night as regards the "tunnel". One big issue with apps and programs being so common these days is actually understanding what your doing, its sure quicker than putting out targets every 10 yards and shooting a shed load of groups though from various different ranges. Gosh that was a laborious task before computers

[remmyman]

Obviously, it only has relevance once you've established the 'kill zone' of your intended target/quarry. But the principle is sound, for live quarry shooting, a 'zero' in relation to realworld shooting application can only ever be a compromise!

 

I totally agree that you then have to put theory into practice and burn some powder to 'finetune' your particular blend of rifle/cartridge/scope

 

Regards remmyman

[Dekers]

Cant be bothered, perhaps if I gained a better education from a normal home when I was a kid I could have grown up to be a rat catcher? But no I am very happy were I am in life now thanks. Sat in a nice home with two great kids who will have nothing barring them from the highest level of jobs and with a family with more than enough assets to give them a good start.

I hate this sort of thing, do I spend an age editing and proof reading? No! Do I pick people up on poor spelling and grama? No its petty and shows a spiteful nature from little people who cant pick fault with what is being said

 

You are unbelievable, reading and comprehension, you still don't see it do you!?

[turbo33]

Right, that's it you two( Kent and Dekers ) If you can't be nice to each other, then go to your rooms..........and don't expect Santa to come and see you tonight

[gibspoon]

I'd quite happily sacrifice some spelling and grammar ability if it meant I could get my head round range estimations using mil-dots and zeroing properly!

[Dekers]

Right, that's it you two( Kent and Dekers ) If you can't be nice to each other, then go to your rooms..........and don't expect Santa to come and see you tonight

 

I would be very happy, and prefer, to do this via pm and not on here at all, but kent can't handle that, and appears to only communicate his inane, inept and incorrect ramblings on the forum!