beesley121 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hi guys, not had my fac long, approx 8 months. The permission I put on it for my good reason is in another county. Basically, the farmer owns one side of a massive valley with thousand of acres. When I put his name and address down, I expected the feo to contact him regarding the land but on speaking with the farmer, he was never spoken too. The issue is that this farmer has bits of land that are not near the main bulk of his land, so how do I know if any, if at all has been passed. To be honest, it's all very very hilly so would be passed no problem but I just wanna cover my back Also, I'm thinking of joining a club so I can go on the range days. Was thinking about getting a pistol. Anyone know if you are allowed to use a pistol on land outside of the club? If a said piece of land is ok for a 243 centre fire, surely a 45 pistol would pose no issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 You are aware that handguns are banned aren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Give the Firearms dept in the county you are shooting in a ring with the co-ordinates of the land you want to shoot over and they will tell you if it is passed or check it and pass it for you (hopefully). If it hasn't been passed, tell them that the landowner is having problems on said land and you would appreciate it if they could sort it out as quickly as they can for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 You are aware that handguns are banned aren't you? For his intentions yes but they are not actually banned as they can be granted for things such as humane dispatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 You are aware that handguns are banned aren't you? Perhaps he means one of those long barrelled pistol things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Perhaps he means one of those long barrelled pistol things? That is all he will get for target work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesley121 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Yes, I ment the long barrel pistols. What I wanted to know is can I use it to shoot at targets on a said piece of land and not just at a range. Not interested in using it for vermin control. As regards to the land. I have contacted north wales police before via email to ask them the question. They told me the proper procedure was to ask my issuing force and that coordinates were not enough. Had to give the the name of the said piece of land, which I have no idea about and a letter of permission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Yes, I ment the long barrel pistols. What I wanted to know is can I use it to shoot at targets on a said piece of land and not just at a range. Not interested in using it for vermin control. As regards to the land. I have contacted north wales police before via email to ask them the question. They told me the proper procedure was to ask my issuing force and that coordinates were not enough. Had to give the the name of the said piece of land, which I have no idea about and a letter of permission You already have permission from the land owner and they do not need to see every letter of permission that you have. Your FEO cannot tell you whether the land is passed or not as it is up to the force area you want to shoot in to tell you that. Co-ordinates are the most accurate piece of information to work from and they are used by most forces to check for land clearances. I personally think they are just trying to make life awkward for you. Call N Wales firearms dept and ask to speak to the head of licencing and explain to them what you need done and if they cannot or will not co-operate you will be taking it further as they are deliberately obstructing you from doing your legitimate hobby or even a job. Be polite, mention the shooting organisation (presuming you are in one) that you will be using to rectify this problem if they don't play ball. Take all names and badge numbers if they have them and if you don't have any luck call BASC, NGO, SACS etc. There is a good chance this land is passed already and it takes them minutes to check their systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Just an after thought, does your FAC say anything along the lines of 'so & so's land/farm at such & such address' because if it has been passed for his land and no specific address you are good to go. You gave his name and address and they have passed his land for you unless it was specific to a certain farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesley121 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 When I applied, I gave them his name and the address of his farm. Now, I know that not every farmer necessarily owns all the land around his house/farm. This guy does own hundreds in not thousands of acres, most is around his house, but he has hundreds of acres say within a mile of his house and then bits and bobs dotted everywhere. This is where I'm unsure. There's nothing on my licence to say I can shoot such a piece of land. Only that I can shoot land deemed by the chief to be safe, so therefore my licence is closed If they have not even spoke to the farmer, how the heck do they know what he owns and therefore where I will be shooting. He also rents land so do I have to specifically contact the police for each bit of rented land he has? To me it's a bit of a mine field. I shot last weekend on a piece of land near his that he own, big hill so great backstop but who am I to say that it's ok as Ive not had my FAC long and hence why it's closed. But I now have no idea really if that said piece of land has been passed of. To be honest too, it would take some time to get a map and draw the boundaries of every field he owns Do you think I should just ask for an open FAC? Lol, it would be much easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 When I applied, I gave them his name and the address of his farm. Now, I know that not every farmer necessarily owns all the land around his house/farm. This guy does own hundreds in not thousands of acres, most is around his house, but he has hundreds of acres say within a mile of his house and then bits and bobs dotted everywhere. This is where I'm unsure. There's nothing on my licence to say I can shoot such a piece of land. Only that I can shoot land deemed by the chief to be safe, so therefore my licence is closed If they have not even spoke to the farmer, how the heck do they know what he owns and therefore where I will be shooting. He also rents land so do I have to specifically contact the police for each bit of rented land he has? To me it's a bit of a mine field. I shot last weekend on a piece of land near his that he own, big hill so great backstop but who am I to say that it's ok as Ive not had my FAC long and hence why it's closed. But I now have no idea really if that said piece of land has been passed of. To be honest too, it would take some time to get a map and draw the boundaries of every field he owns Do you think I should just ask for an open FAC? Lol, it would be much easier Definitely ask for it to be opened. If they have given you your FAC with your permission to shoot on said farmers land then you can shoot on his land as they have granted your ticket for that 'good reason'. They haven't contacted the farmer asking about where all of his land is but have given you authority to shoot over his land and any land that is passed so in effect they have passed all his land when they granted your FAC. It is up to them to inspect his land which they haven't so it was probably already on their system as passed sometime in the past so they wouldn't need to contact him. Like I said before, there is a chance all of his land has been passed at some time in the past and it is only a matter for them to check the system. Tell NW police politely that they have a responsibility to you as a FAC holder to check land suitability in their force area for people who have closed conditions. Remember, the police are the ones who gave you your conditions and it is up to you to abide by them and up to them not to use them as an obstruction for you to go about you rights as a FAC holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 They will quite often 'clear' an area of land as opposed to certain fields/farms so it's worth asking NW firearms dept what/where they have given you clearance for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I can see your problem but I think your opening sentence says it all. Yep, you joined PW some 7 years ago so you have some experience - shotgun? However, in terms of the FAC you're a novice in the eyes of the law. The words run/walk spring to mind. I'm all for an easy life myself, so I'd consider making sure that I satisfy the farmer's wishes in the many, many acres that I can shoot over in the short term and then when I can show a level of experience with the rifle in a year or so, apply to have my FAC opened. Problem? What problem? Who needs hassle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesley121 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I can see your problem but I think your opening sentence says it all. Yep, you joined PW some 7 years ago so you have some experience - shotgun? However, in terms of the FAC you're a novice in the eyes of the law. The words run/walk spring to mind. I'm all for an easy life myself, so I'd consider making sure that I satisfy the farmer's wishes in the many, many acres that I can shoot over in the short term and then when I can show a level of experience with the rifle in a year or so, apply to have my FAC opened. Problem? What problem? Who needs hassle? Just don't want to lose my FAC for shooting on land that has not been passed. I'm happy for it to be closed for now as your right, I am a novice but I could argue that not matter what rifle/calibre I use, it can always kill if it is misused. A .177 air rifle can kill but are not regulated in any way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 When my fac was closed the farm my license was granted on was similar to yours. the main farm had 200 acres round the house and another 150 acres scattered about. Durham classed all the land belonging to the farm so it was ok to shoot even though some of the fields you wouldnt shoot on as they were unsafe to do so, just use your common sense. As for the rented fields I would think they would come under who ever owns them ie if there farm is cleared then the fields will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Just a thought but has the farmer got a FAC and to what calibre? If he has then its already been passed and you just have to find out which calibre for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Just a thought but has the farmer got a FAC and to what calibre? If he has then its already been passed and you just have to find out which calibre for Worth looking at but not necessarily true, if the farmers FAC is Open then nothing can be assumed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatsanmad Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hi there. The only pistols you can get are black powder pistols but im sure you can only use them for target shooting in a club. I own a pietta 1851 nice little pistol but only can use it in the gun club im in. As for your land your best ringing your issueing force and asking them with the land co-ordinates and they should be able to tell you over the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Worth looking at but not necessarily true, if the farmers FAC is Open then nothing can be assumed! Yes but he has to have some land cleared for it and the easiest must surely be his own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Yes but he has to have some land cleared for it and the easiest must surely be his own? I'm not making an issue of this but that is another assumption, if he has an Open FAC it may have been Open from day one, or he may have had it Opened on his last farm, etc., I have never had any land cleared, my FAC was open day one. Like I said.......... "Worth looking at but not necessarily true, if the farmers FAC is Open then nothing can be assumed!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesley121 Posted May 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) Hi guys, wanted to reopen this thread after speaking to a really nice woman in the Cheshire firearms dept Called up to make sure they had received the 2 extra pieces of land I had gained permission for so they could get north wales to do the land checks. They had and had sent them off to north wales to be processed. Asked if the land had already been passed off on there database, seems with the land next door has or the owners name has changed so they need to recheck While on the phone, I asked them about the land I had passed off when I applied for my FAC and explained that this farmer owns half a valley but was never contacted so has all the land he owns been passed off. Cut a very long story short, she said she wouldn't like to say that is has all been passed off and I'm best putting in a map of all the land he owns so they could check up. This was after she told me someone had been waiting for north wales to do a land check for 18 month!! When she checked my file, she also told me that to date, I have a .17hmr and a .22 moderator, told her that was incorrect and that I had a .17hmr and a .17 moderator. She sounded puzzled. I explain I didn't have a .22 yet as I'm still looking for a good setup. Can't remember how we come to this in the conversation, but apparently, none of the land I have on my closed FAC has been passed for a .22lr!!! now the land I have I wales would easily pass for a .243 but according to my file, it had only been passed up to a .17hmr. I then asked then how the hell have I been granted a .22lr as I do not, according to their file, have good reason to possess it. Also, if I had gone out and bought a .22lr and used it on my permission, I would have doing so illegally. Woman on the phone was really nice but was as confused as me. Just said let's hope the new land you have put in gets passed for .22lr. This is just plain stupid to me, what's the point in having a firearms dept if the information they have got is all wrong. Any advice on what I should do Edited May 25, 2014 by beesley121 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay222 Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Don't know about other areas but I believe north Wales clear for rimfire, then upto 6.5mm for land with no deer without specific calibres being mentioned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 beesley You must remember that the women in the office are just office clerks, they would not know a .17 from . .22. If you want to talk technicalaties speak to the licensing manager or at the very least a feo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superspark Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Hi all, I have been reading these threads with great interest. Question? Is there anywhere that the general public can access the land registry of England, Wales and Scotland to see what has been passed for what calibres and what has not. Surely, this would be a much better way to clarify any land issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesley121 Posted May 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Hi all, I have been reading these threads with great interest. Question? Is there anywhere that the general public can access the land registry of England, Wales and Scotland to see what has been passed for what calibres and what has not. Surely, this would be a much better way to clarify any land issues. Very much doubt it mate. The police have a national database but I believe that most land in the uk now needs re inspecting to ensure its still safe. So I was told by the clerk anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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