Actionpigeons Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) There was a debate over pigeons being hungry, not hungry not very long ago and I struggled to get my point over to one or two on here let me try to explain myself better. All birds metabolism works differently than ours, in that I mean they can live on their body fats far better than we can. As I have said in the past, I fly hawks and have done so for many years. I recently put two hawks in their summer aviary’s, as I have now stopped hunting hawks for the summer. I gave them both half a rabbit each. The next day I looked in and as the half rabbit was gone I dropped a second half in. The hawks came to the food as soon as the trap door opened, even though they could not be hungry. (Crops still bulging) The reason for this is, as I have flown them threw the season they have no fat in their systems just muscle, and until they start to build up body fat their body will tell them they are hungry and they will eat for more than they need. (Build up fat) On the other side of the coin: I was given a hawk about a week ago; I was told its flying weight is about 2lb 2oz. I weigh the hawk every day, and when I first was given the hawk its weight was 2lb 12oz. It is now after a week, 2lb 8oz, but still will not eat, the hawk has not fed now for over a week. Should we say its not hungry or should we say its living on the fats in its system because surly it must be feeding on some thing as its passing mutes every day. I myself would say its not hungry enough to need the food I am offering, and until it uses the fats in its system I will have little luck training the hawk. The same can be said of the pigeon, after fattening up on the farmer harvest in the late summer. If they have had an easy winter,as they are. Using little food to keep them warm they can sit up and pick and choose when and where they feed as they have not needed to deplete the body fats to keep warm and their weight is still high. Hungry, not hungry? Maybe not hungry is the wrong thing to say; they are being picky as they have fat in their system. The one thing that is for sure, is that pigeons don’t like to go to bed with an empty crop Edited February 24, 2014 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 An interesting debate, but why you needed to be so aggressive towards some of the PW members arguing the opposite point I cannot imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) An interesting debate, but why you needed to be so aggressive towards some of the PW members arguing the opposite point I cannot imagine. Because instead of just debating the question I had this reply and it was not some it was one. "All this **** about birds on rape in colder weather/snow is ridiculous" what do you think **** means, talk, Nice, good,.? I will look at the other side of the coin all day long as long as some one does not tell me I am talking **** and just debates a topic Edited February 24, 2014 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highbird70 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Finally.....the Kings of pigeoning, are battleing out......I'll get the popcorn for this one.... :lol: Aside the jokes Gentlemans, You 2 most be the most passionate persons that I know of, when it comes down to Pigeon shooting, your bags in recent years are a testament in the art of pigeon shooting, hence, there should be a lot of respect to wards your great experience. I have met Jdog several times, a true gentleman, never met Actionforpigeons, even tho, he lives 10 min from me, as more experienced Gents, that you are, don't let the less experienced people get to you, most of the time on here, some replies are made to wind up OP. ATB Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkj7176 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 I wonder though whether the evidence based on your hawks translates to pigeons ? a) its not unusual for predators to be able to slow down metabolisms i.e. sit about all day while grazers seem to need to be on it 24/7 b) I've seen evidence of pigeons breeding over the mild winter, and according to my wife producing young requires quite a bit of energy. I am seeing a few more pigeons down my way but generally pretty wary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I wonder though whether the evidence based on your hawks translates to pigeons ? a) its not unusual for predators to be able to slow down metabolisms i.e. sit about all day while grazers seem to need to be on it 24/7 B) I've seen evidence of pigeons breeding over the mild winter, and according to my wife producing young requires quite a bit of energy. I am seeing a few more pigeons down my way but generally pretty wary I do understand where you are coming from but hawks do not slow down metabolisms, they do however sit about a lot to conserve energy (body fat) the same I believe can be said of pigeons. I dont think we should confuse birds with grazing mammals, the digestive system is very different. The point being I believe pigeon feed better and are hungrier when we have a longish spell of cold weather and they start using their body fats up, loose weight. The above is just my opinion. if someone has a different opinion and has a theory lets hear it Edited February 24, 2014 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 I know full well this thread is aimed at me. The posts I kept reading were along the lines of, 'pigeons aren't on the rape at the moment as it isn't cold enough to make them hungry'. I've since pointed out that I think they must be fairly hungry as I've seen pigeons on rape for the last month or two in my area. I had another look around a few fields today and I've seen pigeons on rape that haven't been there all winter. Correct me if i'm wrong, anyone, but I don't think it's been getting colder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I know full well this thread is aimed at me. The posts I kept reading were along the lines of, 'pigeons aren't on the rape at the moment as it isn't cold enough to make them hungry'. I've since pointed out that I think they must be fairly hungry as I've seen pigeons on rape for the last month or two in my area. I had another look around a few fields today and I've seen pigeons on rape that haven't been there all winter. Correct me if i'm wrong, anyone, but I don't think it's been getting colder. You are missing the hole point once again motty my friend. My point is they will feed harder and longer if the weather is colder for a while, but if you cant grasp that I give up. Try just reading the thread and not thinking its about you. Edited February 24, 2014 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 You are missing the hole point once again motty my friend. My point is they will feed harder and longer if the weather is colder for a while, but if you cant grasp that I give up. Try just reading the thread and not thinking its about you. That may well be the case. However, on a nice warmish afternoon that Saturday was, I doubt the pigeons that I shot could fit much more food in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 That great orator President Obama said........'it's fine to disagree but it's not fine to be disagreeable'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) That may well be the case. However, on a nice warmish afternoon that Saturday was, I doubt the pigeons that I shot could fit much more food in them. As were the pigeons I shot last sat , thur ,tue, afternoon. sorry maybe its me being disagreeable, no one is saying pigeons are not feeding would anybody say the pigeons in their aria are feeding hard, most pigeons shot in the afternoon or going to roost will have a full crop. Edited February 24, 2014 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkj7176 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 the only diagreeable point is calling Obama a great orator (it just seems it after Bush !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 That great orator President Obama said........'it's fine to disagree but it's not fine to be disagreeable'. PLEASE don't bring him into it!!!! There's enough confusion going on already....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 As were the pigeons I shot last sat , thur ,tue, afternoon. sorry maybe its me being disagreeable, no one is saying pigeons are not feeding would anybody say the pigeons in their aria are feeding hard, most pigeons shot in the afternoon or going to roost will have a full crop. I still say they are not feeding HARD. Shot some last night up to about 4.30pm, with empty crops but some (4) on Saturday evening some WERE full of rape. Round here they ARE feeding, on and off, but in a very half-hearted way. Lots of sitting about in trees, they then all "follow the leader" onto the rape for a few minutes, then something scares one bird and they are all back into the trees for half an hour, then it all repeats... If you shoot one, they all disperse for a while, then build up in the trees as above. Thius can happen 3 or 4 times before they go forth and multipy and you just get the odd "Nobby-No-Mates" coming in. I did get 18 yesterday afternoon, so the crop test is not just a random single bird... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) We had four nights of frost lately in my area, I/we have manged to decoy pigeons onto the rape and are getting larger bags. Could it be they are hungrier due to the cold weather. The short answer is yes, a bird needs more food if we have a few nights of frost on the bounce to maintain its body weight. Edited March 6, 2014 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Or could it be that they have depleted the other food sources and are on the general winter subsistance grub now? We had four nights of frost lately in my area, I/we have manged to decoy pigeons onto the rape and are getting larger bags. Could it be they are hungrier due to the cold weather. The short answer is yes, a bird needs more food if we have a few nights of frost on the bounce to maintain its body weight. Edited March 6, 2014 by Penelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Or could it be that they have depleted the other food sources and are on the general winter subsistance grub now? So you think it’s just a coincidence that they have depleted the other food source to coincide with the first real nights of frost we have had? There are still ivy berries, chick weed ect, they just need more food due to the weather and the only real crop out there in abundance is Rape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Easy tiger, just chucking another possibility out there. It's March and they have been on everything else all winter, so they had to have made inroads to the available food supplies. There have been 3 frosts in my area and they are eating the blackthorn flowers in the roadside hedges of the town I live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Easy tiger, just chucking another possibility out there. It's March and they have been on everything else all winter, so they had to have made inroads to the available food supplies. There have been 3 frosts in my area and they are eating the blackthorn flowers in the roadside hedges of the town I live in. No I enjoy a good debate...lol I keep a diary, weather, time of year, food crops ect. Last year we had some very bad weather and as soon as the frost came I shot over nothing but Rape apart from flight line shooting. That is not just last year, I can go back and have a look and if we get a prolonged spell of cold weather I have noted that the pigeons go onto the rape very quickly. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I have a farming friend in Beds, who had 136 acres of rape in one area over 6 fields last winter, they hammered the lot, but there wasn't much else about and as you know it was bleeding freezing. The only stuff that grew to any length over the winter was within a 30yd radius of the gas guns. Trying to get on terms with them though was another matter. I spent every Saturday from mid Jan to the begining of March there. Always pigeons about though. No I enjoy a good debate...lol I keep a diary, weather, time of year, food crops ect. Last year we had some very bad weather and as soon as the frost came I shot over nothing but Rape apart from flight line shooting. That is not just last year, I can go back and have a look and if we get a prolonged spell of cold weather I have noted that the pigeons go onto the rape very quickly. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I have a farming friend in Beds, who had 136 acres of rape in one area over 6 fields last winter, they hammered the lot, but there wasn't much else about and as you know it was bleeding freezing. The only stuff that grew to any length over the winter was within a 30yd radius of the gas guns. Trying to get on terms with them though was another matter. I spent every Saturday from mid Jan to the begining of March there. Always pigeons about though. Same here, I have a farmer over towards Nottingham. He lost about 250 acres to the pigeons last year, phoning me asking me when I could go over again. This year the Rape is growing well and I have only had two phone calls from him, both coinciding with frosty weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well it's supposed to be high pressure for the next week so frosty early mornings and sunny warm'ish (relatively) days. Same here, I have a farmer over towards Nottingham. He lost about 250 acres to the pigeons last year, phoning me asking me when I could go over again. This year the Rape is growing well and I have only had two phone calls from him, both coinciding with frosty weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Hope it is frosty over the next few days I am having today and tomorrow off, but shooting Sat,Sun, and Mon, oh its a hard life....lol Edited March 6, 2014 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Hope it is frosty over the next few days I am having today and tomorrow off, but shooting Sat,Sun, and Mon, oh its a hard life....lol Good luck AP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 If we can compare a hawk to a pigeon as regards it food requirement, can we compare a lion to a deer? Surely the calorific value and digestibility of the food has a marked effect? Although no falconer, I noticed the effect AP mentions clearly in bringing back that Kestrel to full strength last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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