Oscar Pistorious

[islandgun]

 

Perhaps he thought it was a **** burglar?

 

(rhymes with bird)

or perhaps just taking the P

[ordnance]

Aris is right, south Africa is not a friendly place to be.

Having been there many times and living on a farm there I can concour that you shoot first, then worry about the questions to ask later.

This guy is disabled and has probably felt vulnerability like no one on this forum given where he lives and his situation.

Even in guarded compounds terrible crimes are still committed under the noses of the so called security forces that are there to protect and serve.

Pistorius shot the gun, for what reasons only he will know and may God judge him when his time comes.

That approach shoot first ask questions later is fine as long as you are willing to go to jail if you get it wrong.

[aris]

All my south African friends who think he is guilty made their decision before hearing all the evidence. He is a devisive figure - cocky, arrogant, successful. Lots of people don't like him.

[bullet boy]

All my south African friends who think he is guilty made their decision before hearing all the evidence. He is a devisive figure - cocky, arrogant, successful. Lots of people don't like him.

I've got that feeling about him.

[chrisjh]

cocky little **** guilty as sin deserves a life sentence

[Penelope]

He certainly came across this way prior to the shooting.

 

IMO he didn't mean to shoot her but lost his temper and fired through the door in a rage to scare the living daylights out of her. A control freak.

 

All my south African friends who think he is guilty made their decision before hearing all the evidence. He is a devisive figure - cocky, arrogant, successful. Lots of people don't like him.

[Scully]

More often a financial issue. It is R18 to the pound now. After a certain age, it becomes very difficult to start over. Look, plenty of people live fine lives there - certainly better lifestyles than than many could hpoe to have in the UK - but that comes at a safety cost and doesn't detract from the reality of violent crime there.

I have no idea what 'R18 to the pound' means, but the place was violent when they chose to emigrate there as a young couple with two young children, more so now. It was certainly a life-style choice, and they do indeed lead 'fine lives' there, but perhaps the 'cost' , while indeed being higher than many places, isn't as high as everyone who doesn't in fact live there, makes out.After all, according to many in this country, the streets in America are running with the blood of shooting victims. It certainly hasn't stopped the many relatives of mine going over to Jo'berg on a regular basis.

Back on topic, my 17 year old daughter finds it amazing that instead of waking his partner (and then subsequently finding she wasn't next to him) when hearing noises in the bathroom, Pistorious' immediate response was to start shooting at the bathroom door, not stopping to ponder if perhaps it may be his girlfriend in there as she wasn't in the bed with him. I think his guilt is beyond doubt, and the why isn't too difficuilt to work out. Hopefully the jury will make the right decision.

[aris]

I have no idea what 'R18 to the pound' means, but the place was violent when they chose to emigrate there as a young couple with two young children, more so now. It was certainly a life-style choice, and they do indeed lead 'fine lives' there, but perhaps the 'cost' , while indeed being higher than many places, isn't as high as everyone who doesn't in fact live there, makes out.After all, according to many in this country, the streets in America are running with the blood of shooting victims. It certainly hasn't stopped the many relatives of mine going over to Jo'berg on a regular basis.

Back on topic, my 17 year old daughter finds it amazing that instead of waking his partner (and then subsequently finding she wasn't next to him) when hearing noises in the bathroom, Pistorious' immediate response was to start shooting at the bathroom door, not stopping to ponder if perhaps it may be his girlfriend in there as she wasn't in the bed with him. I think his guilt is beyond doubt, and the why isn't too difficuilt to work out. Hopefully the jury will make the right decision.

 

R18 to the pound means 18 South African Rand (the currency) buys 1 pound. 20 years ago it was 4 rand to the pound. The currency is very very weak, which makes all the more difficult to emigrate even if you have the passport. You sell your R5m house in South Africa with 5 bedrooms, and a pool - that translates to 200,000 pounds or so - what are you going to buy here? Not even a flat in London. That is assuming they let you take the money out of the country due to currency controls. I knew a fair few Brits in SA - and they pretty much said they would never go back, if anything because of the lifestyle change it would entail.

 

As for his guilt - we know he's guilty - the fact he shot her is 100%. The question is what they can prove (believe it or not, you are innocent until proven guilty in SA ). There are 3 options in South African law:

 

Murder

Culpable Homicide

Manslaughter

 

For murder, they need to prove intent.

If it is just negligence, they are looking at culpable homicide.

Manslaughter - it would just be an accident.

 

The main thing is proving intent, and unless they can prove that, he'll get pretty much a slap on the wrist for Culpable Homicide. If murder, he'll be in prison for a long time - but you can be sure there will be appeals.

 

By the way - no juries in SA.

 

There is another case to be watching in SA too - the one of recently extradited Brit Shrien Dewani who went to SA on honeymoon and supposedly had his wife murdered.

Edited April 10, 2014 by aris

[Penelope]

Plus Jacob Zuma and the luxurious house refit saga.

 

 

R18 to the pound means 18 South African Rand (the currency) buys 1 pound. 20 years ago it was 4 rand to the pound. The currency is very very weak, which makes all the more difficult to emigrate even if you have the passport. You sell your R5m house in South Africa with 5 bedrooms, and a pool - that translates to 200,000 pounds or so - what are you going to buy here? Not even a flat in London. That is assuming they let you take the money out of the country due to currency controls. I knew a fair few Brits in SA - and they pretty much said they would never go back, if anything because of the lifestyle change it would entail.

 

As for his guilt - we know he's guilty - the fact he shot her is 100%. The question is what they can prove (believe it or not, you are innocent until proven guilty in SA ). There are 3 options in South African law:

 

Murder

Culpable Homicide

Manslaughter

 

For murder, they need to prove intent.

If it is just negligence, they are looking at culpable homicide.

Manslaughter - it would just be an accident.

 

The main thing is proving intent, and unless they can prove that, he'll get pretty much a slap on the wrist for Culpable Homicide. If murder, he'll be in prison for a long time - but you can be sure there will be appeals.

 

By the way - no juries in SA.

 

There is another case to be watching in SA too - the one of recently extradited Brit Shrien Dewani who went to SA on honeymoon and supposedly had his wife murdered.

[dougall]

Had an SA neighbour for many years came from JoBerg,he said everyone he knew out there includung himself knew people who were killed in burglaries...most home burglaries if confronted ended badly..against this background I can understand the fact he had a weapon. I cannot however reconcile being in bed with your partner/wife...getting up without any thought to waking/checking with her then firing multiple bullets through a shut door down into the toilet/squatting position.......clearly there is no doubt he killed her,it is a matter of why/intent as to the approriate murder/manslaughter charge etc..you just need to look at her parents faces to know what they think and they know the situation a hell of lot closer than we do........I could not imagine accessing a gun if I thought someone was in my house(but I am not in SA),I could not imagine not checking,going to the closed bathroom door and just opening up.......total madness...Will they prove murder though...I doubt it..if it was my sister I would think him guilty as hell but will we ever really know....

[Paul223]

What your saying Aris makes sense to me, the wife's friend considered herself and extended family to be well off living a good life style, they came back with what could be carried in a suitcase and lead a normal life here, but talking to her she sounds like they lost so much.

 

They believed the natives were being enticed to commit racial crimes against white South Africans and after a couple of close calls packed and left, the type of crimes she spoke of were gangs breaking in with the intent of rape and (not or) murder.

In these situations you don't phone the police or high tail it out, either would most likely be the end of you, backing into the corner of a room means you might take a few of them, but would you survive? Shoot as soon as possible through walls doors anything, that's why bullet manufactures boast of their bullets capabilities to perform through 'dry wall'.

I'm not saying the guy is innocent. But what we can't do is draw parallels to how we think and behave in this country,

[aris]

I'm not saying the guy is innocent. But what we can't do is draw parallels to how we think and behave in this country,

 

This is the crux of it. The people I know who have had home invasions and came out unscathed consider themselves 'lucky'. As for the others who have had worse happen to them - generally they don't talk about it.

 

My gut instinct says he lost his temper, they had a row, she went and locked herself in the toilet, and tried to scare her and shot through the door. I don't think he intended to kill her - but that is what ultimately happened. How this translates in law though I do not know - that is for the judge to decide. I can't think of any other motive for him to kill her in this way.

 

Regardless of what happens - the guy is finished. All his sponsors have scarpered, he has sold all his assets to defend himself, and no commercial entity will want anything to do with him in the future.

[saddler]

 

This is the crux of it. The people I know who have had home invasions and came out unscathed consider themselves 'lucky'. As for the others who have had worse happen to them - generally they don't talk about it.

 

My gut instinct says he lost his temper, they had a row, she went and locked herself in the toilet, and tried to scare her and shot through the door. I don't think he intended to kill her - but that is what ultimately happened. How this translates in law though I do not know - that is for the judge to decide. I can't think of any other motive for him to kill her in this way.

 

Regardless of what happens - the guy is finished. All his sponsors have scarpered, he has sold all his assets to defend himself, and no commercial entity will want anything to do with him in the future.

 

Aye - he's not got a leg to stand on......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....I'll get me coat

Edited April 10, 2014 by saddler

[Penelope]

Exactly, and it's that guilt that is being thrown up and running down is face.

 

IMO the guilt will be worse than if he intended to kill.

 

 

This is the crux of it. The people I know who have had home invasions and came out unscathed consider themselves 'lucky'. As for the others who have had worse happen to them - generally they don't talk about it.

 

My gut instinct says he lost his temper, they had a row, she went and locked herself in the toilet, and tried to scare her and shot through the door. I don't think he intended to kill her - but that is what ultimately happened. How this translates in law though I do not know - that is for the judge to decide. I can't think of any other motive for him to kill her in this way.

 

Regardless of what happens - the guy is finished. All his sponsors have scarpered, he has sold all his assets to defend himself, and no commercial entity will want anything to do with him in the future.

[Fisherman Mike]

 

This is the crux of it. The people I know who have had home invasions and came out unscathed consider themselves 'lucky'. As for the others who have had worse happen to them - generally they don't talk about it.

 

My gut instinct says he lost his temper, they had a row, she went and locked herself in the toilet, and tried to scare her and shot through the door. I don't think he intended to kill her - but that is what ultimately happened. How this translates in law though I do not know - that is for the judge to decide. I can't think of any other motive for him to kill her in this way.

 

Regardless of what happens - the guy is finished. All his sponsors have scarpered, he has sold all his assets to defend himself, and no commercial entity will want anything to do with him in the future.

Quite true...in fact he would possibly have a better life in Prison.

[Fisherman Mike]

What your saying Aris makes sense to me, the wife's friend considered herself and extended family to be well off living a good life style, they came back with what could be carried in a suitcase and lead a normal life here, but talking to her she sounds like they lost so much.

 

They believed the natives were being enticed to commit racial crimes against white South Africans and after a couple of close calls packed and left, the type of crimes she spoke of were gangs breaking in with the intent of rape and (not or) murder.

In these situations you don't phone the police or high tail it out, either would most likely be the end of you, backing into the corner of a room means you might take a few of them, but would you survive? Shoot as soon as possible through walls doors anything, that's why bullet manufactures boast of their bullets capabilities to perform through 'dry wall'.

I'm not saying the guy is innocent. But what we can't do is draw parallels to how we think and behave in this country,

Irrespective of what NM achieved apartheid is alive and well and living in SA..

[bullet boy]

This court case is getting very interesting now.

[Scully]

 

R18 to the pound means 18 South African Rand (the currency) buys 1 pound. 20 years ago it was 4 rand to the pound. The currency is very very weak, which makes all the more difficult to emigrate even if you have the passport. You sell your R5m house in South Africa with 5 bedrooms, and a pool - that translates to 200,000 pounds or so - what are you going to buy here? Not even a flat in London. That is assuming they let you take the money out of the country due to currency controls. I knew a fair few Brits in SA - and they pretty much said they would never go back, if anything because of the lifestyle change it would entail.

 

 

 

Ah, with you, didn't realise you meant the exchange rate. It wouldn't effect my relatives however; the two sons inherited their Grandmothers house in Stockport (not London prices I admit, but a big house nonetheless) when their Father (my Uncle) died in Krugersdorff a couple of years ago. As far as I'm aware the house was sold so they obviously have no plans to return to the UK. They honestly enjoy their life out there and can't understand why I wont go out, despite them trying to entice me with 'range time'.

As you say in another post, Pistorious is finished whatever the outcome, and while I doubt he intended to kill his girlfriend, I can't fathom what he thought was going to be the result of firing his gun through a door knowing she was in the room behind it. The man is obviously as volatile as nitro, and I sincerely hope at the least, he goes down for a very long time.

Cracking avatar Fisherman Mike.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Scully