need help with f.a.c

[tinyorgi]

has anyone on here got a rifle firearms license ?
ive applied for a fac and been told i need to get out with someone with experience who will say i'am safe with a gun before they grant me a certificate.
only got a small window of time before the application fails and been let down by a work mates mate , been air gunning for 20yrs and shoot on two local farms .
if anyone lives close ish to halifax area and willing to take me out on a shoot in next week or two please send a message

[delburt0]

You joined 48 mins ago and want free permission nice intro

I would estimate 30% of us on here are fac holders.

Call me old fashioned but buy some moleskins and a tattersall and get knocking.

Hope there is someone that will take you under there wing saying that.

Push comes to shove see your fao and ask him his feelings on you joining a target shooting club to gain experience.

Edited March 26, 2014 by delburt0

[colin lad]

there is a lot of people on here who have a fac and rifles

are you asking for someone to take you out on their land so you can use their guns then you may struggle especially as its your 1st post,

if you are asking someone to come with you to your farms and show you the ropes with their rifle and maybe let you have a go then you may get a response

and welcome to pw

 

colin

[kent]

You have consent to use Firearms on two bits of land round Halifax? I don't get this certifying your safe thing, that's for the cops to decide or issue you a FAC with mentor conditions. Speak to your shooting org and take advice regarding your application

[tinyorgi]

sorry getting desperate and didn't have time to kiss *** , not asking for free permisson as already have two farms to shoot airgun on and have given permisson to shoot rimfire , polce have said if i can find someone to take me out and i can prove to them i'm safe with a gun , won't get fac as had no expereance of handing a rimfire before .

i really need someone who will be kind enought to either take me out on there land or come and shoot on mine ,

as i'm wanting fac to shoot on land not the shooting range so going to range isn't going to be 100% for the police.

[camokid]

im too far so cant help.....but offer a free night on the foxes and rabbits on your land and in return you can have a go on there rifles and pick there brains a bit... but it wont happen over night mate also contact basc if you are insured if your not you need it.....

[kent]

sorry getting desperate and didn't have time to kiss *** , not asking for free permisson as already have two farms to shoot airgun on and have given permisson to shoot rimfire , polce have said if i can find someone to take me out and i can prove to them i'm safe with a gun , won't get fac as had no expereance of handing a rimfire before .

i really need someone who will be kind enought to either take me out on there land or come and shoot on mine ,

as i'm wanting fac to shoot on land not the shooting range so going to range isn't going to be 100% for the police.

You need an ORG like BASC, there is no requirement for training.

[Billy.]

You need an ORG like BASC, there is no requirement for training.

 

I disagree. If someone hasn't got experience with powder burners, then they should have a mentor on a ticket. I've mentored a couple of lads and it not only gets them up to speed faster, but ensures your good practices are passed on straight away.

OP - you need to set up a new thread and call it "FAC Mentor required in Halifax"

Edited March 27, 2014 by Billy.

[welshwizard]

You need an ORG like BASC, there is no requirement for training.

even though you don't want to shoot on a range it sounds as though joining a rifle club would gain you valuable experience with handling a firearm safely at very least !

[kent]

I disagree. If someone hasn't got experience with powder burners, then they should have a mentor on a ticket. I've mentored a couple of lads and it not only gets them up to speed faster, but ensures your good practices are passed on straight away.

 

OP - you need to set up a new thread and call it "FAC Mentor required in Halifax"

Likewise but who mentors the mentor, the fact remains it is not in guidance notes or law as regards anything but deer calibre rifles (unless things have changed?) I feel I am more likely to see bad practice from older FAC holders who often claim to have been shooting "from when Adam was a lad"

[Therealchucknorris]

sorry getting desperate and didn't have time to kiss *** ,

 

It's not about kissing backsides, it's just following the right way of doing things on here. Someone has to make a decision on if you would be the sort of person they'd want to take out and given you have no experience, hand you something that could kill them.

 

As 100% of the people on here don't know you then this is all we have to go on and someone new starting up and telling people they have to rush to help you won't get you the most amount of help.

 

It would have taken an extra two minutes to put a post in the new member section and I'm sure that isn't going to delay things so long that the police are going to say no.

 

I'm with Billy on this, a mentor would be the best route for you. How can it be sufficient for someone to take a new person out once or twice and determine if they're competent enough to handle a firearm responsibly.

[CharlieT]

Shame you are not down this way, I would have been only too pleased to come out with you and steer you in the right direction. After all we should do what we can to help the next generation get into shooting.

 

Having said that, the police are putting you in a catch 22 position. There is, quite rightly, no requirement to expect applicants to have gained experience prior to application/grant, indeed the latest Home Office Guidance even suggests a mentoring condition should not be applied.

 

I strongly suggest you join the BASC and speak with them on this matter, they will guide you through the requirements for application and advise you on the way forward.

 

Failing that, just put your application in and insist the police process it as it stands. They will need very strong grounds not to grant.

[nighteye]

even though you want to hunt and not shoot targets , I personally would recommend joining a target club to learn .

It's not about just the targets , it's also about learning things like trajectory , suitability of specific rounds to specific jobs eg. .22 is a great bunny bashing round but richochets very very easily , so if your ground and or permission has a lot of hard ground are you better getting a .17 hmr or what about a .223 for foxes or would you be better with a 22.250 --.

See what i mean , knowledge is power ,sometimes quite litterally.

Better safe than sorry , if I was you i would contact the nearest club and at least you will be showing the police that you are putting the time and effort into learning , also if you lose the land you have at the moment you will still have "Good Reason" for possessing a firearm and not limited to only .22 .

All the best , let us know how you get on .

kind regards Chris.

[Billy.]

Likewise but who mentors the mentor, the fact remains it is not in guidance notes or law as regards anything but deer calibre rifles (unless things have changed?) I feel I am more likely to see bad practice from older FAC holders who often claim to have been shooting "from when Adam was a lad"

 

Next thing is you'll be complaining that the newbies aren't allowed to shoot, because the force have decided they don't have enough experience. At least the lad is getting the opportunity to hold a FAC rather than flat out being denied.

 

I'm fed up with people saying "go to BASC". Unless it seems wholly unreasonable, then tough, appreciate what you've been given and work to prove your worth.

[kent]

Next thing is you'll be complaining that the newbies aren't allowed to shoot, because the force have decided they don't have enough experience. At least the lad is getting the opportunity to hold a FAC rather than flat out being denied.

 

I'm fed up with people saying "go to BASC". Unless it seems wholly unreasonable, then tough, appreciate what you've been given and work to prove your worth.

Yet they like us must work within the laws, there is no law that says this must occur. I have mentored quite a few people myself but the points remain 1. who mentored the mentors 2. its for them to grant or deny (even if its on an accompanied condition for a period). As a fellow shooter why should I say someone is fit and safe? its their job to discern and take responsibility if the person can hold such a thing without danger to the public not mine.

I think all these matters should be brought to the attention of the bodies who we as shooters set up to support and aid us.

I have looked at this a little more than most ( I have even once considered running a course ) it was about ten years ago I first came across it on Deer rifles and mentored a couple now its rimfires and we as mentors need to certify the applicant safe? Forget that the letter I write generally says has been instructed in and or has witnessed safe practice, selection of suitable backstops / backdrop areas. The fact is when I got my first FAC it was for a deer calibre rifle without mentor or training and nothing has changed legally

 

Newcomers should be welcomed but we should also object to being given the task unofficial scapegoat IMO

[Billy.]

So you're against it, but happy to mentor when asked.

[ian g]

I agree with Kent who mentored the mentors how does the police know these people are safe to instruct new people to the sport I applied for my FAC and got everything I wanted with the only condition was it was a closed ticket although if I'd of listened to the bad advice from 1 person at BASC who I unfortunaly end up speaking to everytime iv rung I'd of never of applied for my 17hmr got told by him that it was my first application and I'd never get it an am wasting my time and to just go for 22 I went for both and there was no problem seems this mentoring is just another obstacal some police forces are putting in the way of new applicants its almost like there getting someone else to do there job for them

[kent]

So you're against it, but happy to mentor when asked.

Very much against it from a legal point of view as its back door non legislation legislation if you see my point. Have always and will always be happy to mentor but am getting a little weary of the system of good will being abused by the authorities, it was always fair enough for deerstalking and heavier calibres and many of us took it in our stride as a good thing ( also this was within guidance notes) but for pity's sake what next FAC air mentoring? Most of what I have done of recent has been pre-application and it does tend to head them off at the pass as regards the mentoring condition.

[kent]

I agree with Kent who mentored the mentors how does the police know these people are safe to instruct new people to the sport I applied for my FAC and got everything I wanted with the only condition was it was a closed ticket although if I'd of listened to the bad advice from 1 person at BASC who I unfortunaly end up speaking to everytime iv rung I'd of never of applied for my 17hmr got told by him that it was my first application and I'd never get it an am wasting my time and to just go for 22 I went for both and there was no problem seems this mentoring is just another obstacal some police forces are putting in the way of new applicants its almost like there getting someone else to do there job for them

Partly its us doing their job but more importantly its a Butt covering exercise if it all goes wrong. New applicants today are the best they have ever been I feel as there is so much info out there. In the old days it was common for the officer (who actually knew what they were about) to question the applicant on safe practice (shot carriage, ricochet risk etc.) but now what is the point as only a fraction of FEOs shoot or understand the issues

[ian g]

Partly its us doing their job but more importantly its a Butt covering exercise if it all goes wrong. New applicants today are the best they have ever been I feel as there is so much info out there. In the old days it was common for the officer (who actually knew what they were about) to question the applicant on safe practice (shot carriage, ricochet risk etc.) but now what is the point as only a fraction of FEOs shoot or understand the issues

I actually had a land inspection recently were they refused to pass for 223 but passed 22 hornet which was ******** 2 of them came to that decision even when I'd showed them It was completely safe for 223 while I was walking round with them one tryed to explain the dangers of ricochet by telling me how he has shot himself in the chest with one I couldn't believe what I was hearing and lost any faith in a sensible decision being made between the pair of them

[Old farrier]

Hi

Sorry your having a problem possible solution

Join a club

There you may find a mentor ie the club instructor

Most clubs have different sections target and sporting target

This will also perfect your skills and acclimatise you to your rifle of choice and possibly help you choose your new gun

Club members can use club guns

 

Now I'm not sure if a person with a open rim fire licence can let a non licence holder shoot there gun to establish there compitence unless they have been granted a estate licence ?

With out breaking the law

Which appears to vary county to county

Hope it works out for you

All the best

Of

[kent]

I actually had a land inspection recently were they refused to pass for 223 but passed 22 hornet which was ******** 2 of them came to that decision even when I'd showed them It was completely safe for 223 while I was walking round with them one tryed to explain the dangers of ricochet by telling me how he has shot himself in the chest with one I couldn't believe what I was hearing and lost any faith in a sensible decision being made between the pair of them

 

Were they the chuckle brothers masquerading again? I should love for them to explain how much more dangerous 1000 ft lb is over 700 ftlb and why a 40 grain v-max wasn't actually marginally less likely to ricochet from a .223 than a 45 grain sierra softpoint hornet bullet fired at a 400 fps slower velocity. I think shooting oneself with a ricochet should sort of bar someone from doing land inspections but who am I

[Whitebridges]

Partly its us doing their job but more importantly its a Butt covering exercise if it all goes wrong. New applicants today are the best they have ever been I feel as there is so much info out there. In the old days it was common for the officer (who actually knew what they were about) to question the applicant on safe practice (shot carriage, ricochet risk etc.) but now what is the point as only a fraction of FEOs shoot or understand the issues

So Kent what I think you are saying is that should a FAC holder have an 'incident' post your ( or anyone else's) mentoring then the mentor would be exposed to one up the bottom from the police?

You are having another laugh if you think this is the case. Unless of course you can state categorically my pants are knotted.

[kent]

So Kent what I think you are saying is that should a FAC holder have an 'incident' post your ( or anyone else's) mentoring then the mentor would be exposed to one up the bottom from the police?

You are having another laugh if you think this is the case. Unless of course you can state categorically my pants are knotted.

 

No what I am saying is exactly what I did but will say it again clear and slow "they are protecting themselves from critisism if something goes wrong after issue of the ticket as an out of course thing".

[Whitebridges]

No what I am saying is exactly what I did but will say it again clear and slow "they are protecting themselves from critisism if something goes wrong after issue of the ticket as an out of course thing".

You ought to lighten up a bit. I don't consider the police 'they' either. If you have a problem mentoring refuse to do it.

If you want to patronise me by using 'clear and slow' I'm very happy to trade some **** with you .