Interesting Statistic from the RSPB !

[Kes]

Time for garden improvements and Garlic planting (havent forgotten Ack- Ack), so off I went tho the local garden centre for a few bits and pieces.

In the entrance was a lady looking to encourage RSPB membership.

She had a 'stall' - lots of photos and small plastic animals.

She decided I looked the type and started telling me how the population of wrens has increased and goldfinches but many other species inc starlings are vastly reduced in numbers. Some species, like the woodpigeon has increased by well over 100% in the last year - so, its official, us pigeon shooters are not doing a proper job!

 

She also said RSPB now 'looks after' all wild animals and birds.

 

I said I could not support RSPB because I didnt agree with aspects of their policy.

I explain that I shoot and eat what I shoot and that perhaps RSPB should recognise that organised shoots do more at a practical level for nature conservation and shooters also improve habitat and winter feeding.

 

She approved of shooting to eat and disagreed with RSPB's raptor policy. In fact she was normal and very pleasant, I was tempted to invite her shooting to see.

 

By the time I had finished talking to her however, 'we' had apparently bought the garden centre.

[Scully]

Yeah, they're not all bad. A woman for whom I've done a lot of work, and an RSPB member, lives in a huge rambling mansion and from her kitchen window you can see many feeders of all descriptions hanging from trees and various objects. The scattered food from these tables etc attracts pheasants. She is an avid twitcher, but that doesn't prevent her sliding up the bedroom window on occassion and popping off the odd pheasant 'for the pot' , or a particularly greedy corvid with her .410. Brilliant.

Many's the time I've been working somewhere in her grounds and heard the crack of the gun, looked round and there's a bunny twitching on the lawn.My kind of woman.

Another farmers wife, also a RSPB member, always has me bring round my .22 whenever I do work for her to pop off a few branchers at this time of year in the Rookery.

[kent]

Avery did them a lot of harm, they are getting mission creep however and shouldn't concern themselves with mammals or risk their status. The ground roots birders are much the same as us in many ways, it should not be forgotten that some wildfowling clubs hold leases on RSPB ground

[aister]

I find the RSPB workers and officials up here in Shetland are fine to get along with when it comes to shooting. The company I work for does a lot of work for the RSPB so I am working around them a lot and know a lot of them personally. I find a lot of them asking how the shooting is going and they often ask if I have seen any unusual birds whilst out shooting.

 

A while back when there was mention of a goose cull, the RSPB wanted the fowlers to shoot as many as they could during the season rather than have it done out of season by any cowboy with a rifle that could be put on a license as they knew that the guys shooting geese during the season knew what they were doing and knew that the birds wouldn't go to waste.

 

I hear a lot of horror story's about the RSPB from up and down the country but thankfully I don't see it up here.

[kent]

I find the RSPB workers and officials up here in Shetland are fine to get along with when it comes to shooting. The company I work for does a lot of work for the RSPB so I am working around them a lot and know a lot of them personally. I find a lot of them asking how the shooting is going and they often ask if I have seen any unusual birds whilst out shooting.

 

A while back when there was mention of a goose cull, the RSPB wanted the fowlers to shoot as many as they could during the season rather than have it done out of season by any cowboy with a rifle that could be put on a license as they knew that the guys shooting geese during the season knew what they were doing and knew that the birds wouldn't go to waste.

 

I hear a lot of horror story's about the RSPB from up and down the country but thankfully I don't see it up here.

Spot on same experiances here, with the exception of out of season Geese for obvious reasons. I think we should work towards stronger bonds and more co-operation rather than fighting (we have a common interest though it might seem different to outsiders)

[Reece]

Avery did them a lot of harm, they are getting mission creep however and shouldn't concern themselves with mammals or risk their status. The ground roots birders are much the same as us in many ways, it should not be forgotten that some wildfowling clubs hold leases on RSPB ground

 

I wouldn't say their concern with mammals is a bad thing. If anything it's a good thing that they're focusing more on whole ecosystems than just the birds. Every part of that ecosystem is important for the birds.

 

All I would say about the RSPB and shooting is that they could be a doing more to stop generalisations of shooters and gamekeepers. They need to make it clear that only a minority of gamekeepers are involved in illegal raptor persecution whenever they report on issues to do with raptors. I know that the RSPB already accepts this to be true, but they could be more vocal with it.

 

The RSPB aren't perfect but they have a lot in common with shooters. They certainly have more in common with shooters than they do with animal rights activists who have campaigned against some RSPB projects.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Reece

[CharlieT]

 

I know that the RSPB already accepts this to be true,

 

 

 

Are you really sure about this bold statement

[fenboy]

Time for garden improvements and Garlic planting (havent forgotten Ack- Ack), so off I went tho the local garden centre for a few bits and pieces.

In the entrance was a lady looking to encourage RSPB membership.

She had a 'stall' - lots of photos and small plastic animals.

She decided I looked the type and started telling me how the population of wrens has increased and goldfinches but many other species inc starlings are vastly reduced in numbers. Some species, like the woodpigeon has increased by well over 100% in the last year - so, its official, us pigeon shooters are not doing a proper job!

 

She also said RSPB now 'looks after' all wild animals and birds.

 

I said I could not support RSPB because I didnt agree with aspects of their policy.

I explain that I shoot and eat what I shoot and that perhaps RSPB should recognise that organised shoots do more at a practical level for nature conservation and shooters also improve habitat and winter feeding.

 

She approved of shooting to eat and disagreed with RSPB's raptor policy. In fact she was normal and very pleasant, I was tempted to invite her shooting to see.

 

By the time I had finished talking to her however, 'we' had apparently bought the garden centre.

 

Wood pigeon increased by 100% in a year , In think some wires have got crossed somewhere !!

[Cottonseed]

... I know that the RSPB already accepts this to be true, but they could be more vocal with it.

 

Are you really sure about this bold statement

I'd question that statement too. Only days ago I read something on the CLA Grass Roots email protesting that the RSPB--although acquainted with the facts on rogue gamekeepers-- had recently published a sweeping generalisation obviously aimed at making members of the RSPB think poisoning raptors

was normal keepering practice.

[scotslad]

 

I wouldn't say their concern with mammals is a bad thing. If anything it's a good thing that they're focusing more on whole ecosystems than just the birds. Every part of that ecosystem is important for the birds.

 

All I would say about the RSPB and shooting is that they could be a doing more to stop generalisations of shooters and gamekeepers. They need to make it clear that only a minority of gamekeepers are involved in illegal raptor persecution whenever they report on issues to do with raptors. that the I know RSPB already accepts this to be true, but they could be more vocal with it.

 

The RSPB aren't perfect but they have a lot in common with shooters. They certainly have more in common with shooters than they do with animal rights activists who have campaigned against some RSPB projects.

Aye i would strongly disagree with that too, they may well know it privately but that does not get them new members or subscriptions/donations. The RSPB has based all its recruitment drives over the last decade by vilifiying keepers/shooters despite most of us doing far more good than even the keenest bird watcher. How many of them put ton's of feed out over a wide area every year

 

The ST back page is on about them moving from birds to mammals, seemingly changed name of monthly mag and everything, seemingly losing members so possibly a bid to attract more members

 

As far as i'm concerned the RsPB now do more harm than good to uk's bird life, if they were only more honest and admitted they comtrol some species on there reserves and that cats are also a mojor factor in population decline etc, but that will affect members/money as some people wouldn't like being told tiddles kills birds.

Have to admit the few ground roots workes for RSPB have been brand new, at end of day most shooters and birders/conservationists have and awful lot in common

[Reece]

The RSPB have accepted on occasion that the number of gamekeepers responsible for raptor persecution is a minority. They certainly need to be more vocal with that and they have their problems, but a part of one of their reports basically said that the recovery of birds like buzzards and red kites could not have happened if the raptor killing gamekeepers were the majority (not using these exact words of course).

[CharlieT]

The RSPB have accepted on occasion that the number of gamekeepers responsible for raptor persecution is a minority. They certainly need to be more vocal with that and they have their problems, but a part of one of their reports basically said that the recovery of birds like buzzards and red kites could not have happened if the raptor killing gamekeepers were the majority (not using these exact words of course).

Really.

 

Just a few of the RSPB's recent quips ........................

 

“However, these magnificent birds are being removed from parts of our countryside where they should be flourishing.”

 

"Derbyshire boasts some of the most spectacular uplands in the country but it is disgraceful and unacceptable birds of prey are systematically removed from parts of it"

 

"Since 1990, over a hundred gamekeepers have run the same gauntlet, appearing in court for raptor persecution offences"

 

Dave **** says he quit as head investigator for the RSPB in Scotland because he was “sick to the back teeth” of gamekeepers getting away with killing raptors.

****’s explosive allegations, based on a 25-year career, include landowners committing perjury and police tipping off gamekeepers they were about to visit

" We still come across far too many incidents of poisoning, trapping and shooting of birds of prey"

Oh, and the positive comment you speak of regarding the spread of Buzzards............."At the same time, there was a reduction in illegal killing, as gamekeepers in many lowland areas came to appreciate that buzzards pose a very limited threat to game shooting interests......... But, though there are false reports that numbers are out of control, there are still areas of the UK where their numbers are restricted by illegal activity"

[Westley]

I hope that those North of the Border continue to "get on well" with the R.S.P.B. after their usual drivel on the B.B.C. breakfast programme about the 12 Red Kites and 2 Buzzards all found poisoned on a Scottish grouse moor. Great store was put into explaining that it was a shooting moor and that Gamekeepers were responsible.(No evidence to substantiate this, of course) It was also stated that the R.S.P.B. want to see the Landowners held to account for alleged offences on their land and that could open the floodgates for unsafe prosecutions. Thankfully, unlike the R.S.P.C.A. who do their own invetigations and prosecutions, the R.S.P.B. go through the usual C.P.S. system.

[scotslad]

Aye there is 10k on offer as a reward, and seemingly there hotlines have been jammed with more offers of a reward.

 

In Scoland the landowners already can be held accountable, vicarious? liability, 1 very prolific moor is up for rent at moment but no one will touch it, keepering staff went down from double figures (10-13ish) to 2, know another moor where keeper left this year not being replaced as owner is running scared, last year that moor fledged something like 80 black grouse chicks (that he knows off), which is a lot for that area

 

Also in Scotland they ammended the general licences at last minute this jan, they can now withdraw an estates or individuals from using the general licence IF they SUSPECT (no evidence or proof) u have commited a wildlife crime, ie no corvid trapping or even pigeon shooting. So i would imagine having a dead BOP on ur ground no matter how it died could effectively cost u ur job (no corvid control= no grouse keepping job)

 

They were once a brilliant organisation/charity that have done a massive ammount of good in the past but now i wouldn't trust a word that came outof their mouths, if they told me it was raining i'd look outside. Very sad.

 

I'm sure they still do some good work on the ground, and most of the workers i've met have been brand new (apart from odd nut jobs)

 

Really is a massive shame that they have been highjacked by the anti's (or atleast the PR/marketing side has) as well as being so driven purely by memberships/money, bottom line is BOP's/Raptor persecution makes money (despite numbers being at an all time high) songbirds/waders despite needing help don't make money. Simples

[kent]

The RSPB shoot foxes, cull deer, rent land to Wildfowlers etc on their ground and supply Larsens FOC to Farmers with important nesting sites. Just like our Orgs have some idiots in them so do thiers

[scotslad]

So why do the RSPB keep it all a seceret then? Yes it has it fair share of idiots and idealist but unfortunately they all seem to be at the top management roles shaping policies and making sound bites/press releases!!

 

I'm on a commitee of my local nature reserve and have been on it for quite a few years now, they still point blank refuse to kill anything At moment prob around 50+ mallard yet be lucky to get 1 duckling fledged, few years ago some dab chicks (little grebe) had 4 nesting attempts yet never got a chick fledged, prob could walk round the pond shortly and pick up 40-50 eggs been ate by corvids and its fairly common to see stoats,members like it as get some good photo's,

I had a blow out last meeting when they were moaning about the price of feed and told them in no uncertain terms be better to stop feeding as all they are doing is attracting wildlife into a small area to be eaten by something else and doing more harm than good to local wildlife

They honestly just don't see that killing 1-2 pairs of corbies plus couple of stoats would make a massive difference and they would have a thriving pond with loads of young birds ideal for kids. To be fair the reserve manager actually came up to me after meeting and asked me to go down and shoot them on the quiet, but i think u have to be honest open and publise wot ur doing and why

 

This is the real damage that RSPB(and other charities institutions) and whole disneyified view of animals are doing by not being honest and telling the true picture, if they all sung from same hymn sheet and admitted that it is good to have a targeted predator control programme esp at this time of year. And many peoples attitue might change towards shooting as they would realise just how much good we do

 

Sometimes i don't think the head honcho's at rspb realise the damage and division they have caused with their ill thought out marketing/PR soundbites

Edited April 6, 2014 by scotslad

[Gimlet]

Yeah, they're not all bad. A woman for whom I've done a lot of work, and an RSPB member, lives in a huge rambling mansion and from her kitchen window you can see many feeders of all descriptions hanging from trees and various objects. The scattered food from these tables etc attracts pheasants. She is an avid twitcher, but that doesn't prevent her sliding up the bedroom window on occassion and popping off the odd pheasant 'for the pot' , or a particularly greedy corvid with her .410. Brilliant.

Many's the time I've been working somewhere in her grounds and heard the crack of the gun, looked round and there's a bunny twitching on the lawn.My kind of woman.

Another farmers wife, also a RSPB member, always has me bring round my .22 whenever I do work for her to pop off a few branchers at this time of year in the Rookery.

 

Every village had at least one of these characters at one time. There was a formidable old bird near me when I was growing up, an old colonial type and avid conservationist but of the right sort. She owned a substantial estate at the end of the valley which by today's standards of agriculture was mostly wilderness. The house was a shambles, half smoked cigarettes everywhere, rabbits hung outside the front door, the garden unfenced and gradually disappearing into the woods. The place was full of labradors and peacocks and her old moss-covered car which she'd drive into the village in second gear was parked half in and half out of the hedge.

She caught us making a camp in her woods once when we were about 11. We'd cut down a small tree and dug a sizeable hole into a bank. We got a lecture on the importance of trees and the preservation of nature and a potted history on the habits of wild birds and animals. We were required to make amends by making ourselves useful patrolling her land looking for poachers, recording the reg numbers of fly-tippers and hunting rabbits with bows and arrows.

These were the sort of women who founded animal charities. None like them now. Long dead and gone. The house has been gentrified, the garden tamed and fenced off and now its all Audis and security lights. It seems animal charities have gone the same way.

[malantone]

 

A local bloke has been asked by the RSPB to take out the foxes on gull reserve, as they had hardly a chick fledged last year.

[anser2]

You must not lose sight of where the RSPB gets a large slice of their income from city dwellers divorced from the realities of the countryside and dear old ladies with a cat called tibbles. To broadcast they are killing dear fluffy little foxes or tibbles is killing baby birds would be econimic suicide. Unfortunetly the world has moved on from my younger days and we now have a generation of the public who think chickens live in plastic bags in the bottom of deep freezers and the thought of getting blood on their hands would turn most into confimed vegges.

 

As hunters we are in regular contact with wildlife and though we care for it we are not senmental about it. This is some thing the public at large find had to grasp so its not surprising that the RSPB want to milk the public for all they can and not put their income to risk by telling them about the realities of conservation. Who can blame them. Perhaps the fault is ours for letting this situation develop and not getting into schools and the TV to push our conservation message across.

[scotslad]

Do u think that is right thou Anser?

Is it right the RSPB should abandon wots good for birds, the very thing it was set up to do, just to earn an extra shilling or 2 and keep there bank balance full.

 

It's only econmic suicide because the RSPB has played on if not encouraged this disneyfied view of nature/countryside. They should never have let it get this far (or possibly we shouldn't ave let it get this far)

 

The RSPB are in a brilliant position to educate far more of the general public than shooters/basc/ngo/ca etc ever could and yet when ever they get the chance to put the boot into field sports they do it, and seem to enjoy doing it. Even when the purdey awards for conservation or green shoots things from BASC u never hear a peep, yet come the glorious 12th or when the annual wildlife crime reports come out u can't shut them up.

 

Not asking for much for the RSPB to stand up and admit they do kill predators on there reserves and it is a vital part of their managent plan and that ur cat is probably causing sevre damage to local bird populations and even more so if u have a bird table and are feeding birds attracting them to the danger zone. Even if they just encouraged tiddles to wear a bell or some sort of mesh fencing round bird tables to help to protect the birds.

Would be nice for them to actually aknowledge just how much benefit shoots play in conserving bird and wildlife in general

 

My earlier example, that wildlife trust thinks its doing great putting all this feed out throughout the year for birds, BUT until they wake up and start controlling some species there actually doing more harm than good to local bird populations, only attracting a higher density of birds making it even easier for any predators. They just can't see it.

The wee shoot i run puts around 8-10 times as much feed out as them plus ours is spread over around 1000acres instead of a couple of feeders close to the hides so everyone can take nice photos.