Fisherman Mike Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Are you for real? Europe calls us treasure Island, as we pay inflated prices without quibble, so do you really think they wont sell us goods that we will pay more for compared to the "poor men of Europe , Spain Greece etc. oh and dont worry about exports, we make nowt to sell now thanks to the witch in your avatar. KW Witch how dare you... That's Marge Farage... leader of the new xenophobe party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Why do we keep whinging on about immigrants if i was a young man and had the opportunity to go to another country and earn 5 to 10 + times the amount that i could in my own country then i would, who can condemn them for that, there are a lot of good people working long and hard hours here, please don't tell me that they are taking the jobs of British people because the jobs are there for ALL, why didn't we enjoy full employment before they all appeared ? We need a lot more decent rent'able accommodation! building it will create a few jobs for those that want / can afford! to work, Self employed people ARE the ones who employ others, who employs you KDUBYA he obviously pays well, KW are you seriously suggesting that all self employed people should not claim for legitimate expenses against tax ? hats off to you for paying as much tax as you can, thanks KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Why do we keep whinging on about immigrants if i was a young man and had the opportunity to go to another country and earn 5 to 10 + times the amount that i could in my own country then i would, who can condemn them for that, there are a lot of good people working long and hard hours here, please don't tell me that they are taking the jobs of British people because the jobs are there for ALL, why didn't we enjoy full employment before they all appeared ? We need a lot more decent rent'able accommodation! building it will create a few jobs for those that want / can afford! to work, Self employed people ARE the ones who employ others, who employs you KDUBYA he obviously pays well, KW are you seriously suggesting that all self employed people should not claim for legitimate expenses against tax ? hats off to you for paying as much tax as you can, thanks KW In my experience of foreign labour in the construction industry, and I have employed them over many years, they are polite, reliable, honest and trustworthy with a superb work ethic. They are paid the equivalent statutory rate as British workers as laid down by the BEC if employed direct and work quickly and accurately with minimal defects. They don't want to be on benefits..they want to earn real money, work like Trojans and expect to pay tax on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Why do we keep whinging on about immigrants if i was a young man and had the opportunity to go to another country and earn 5 to 10 + times the amount that i could in my own country then i would, who can condemn them for that, there are a lot of good people working long and hard hours here, please don't tell me that they are taking the jobs of British people because the jobs are there for ALL, why didn't we enjoy full employment before they all appeared ? We need a lot more decent rent'able accommodation! building it will create a few jobs for those that want / can afford! to work, Self employed people ARE the ones who employ others, who employs you KDUBYA he obviously pays well, KW are you seriously suggesting that all self employed people should not claim for legitimate expenses against tax ? hats off to you for paying as much tax as you can, thanks KW no need to thank me even though you are getting some of it, role on independence eh! never said for one minute that the self employed should not claim legitimate tax relief, you knew that but it did not suit your sarcastic answer did it? I refer to the cash in hand payments, reduced wage claims,only paying yourself 30 bob an hour the wife as the secretary and the washer as a business need etc etc,oh and PS I dont work for billy the bodger, do you ? or are you billy? KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 That's Marge Farage... leader of the new xenophobe party. She gets my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 In my experience of foreign labour in the construction industry, and I have employed them over many years, they are polite, reliable, honest and trustworthy with a superb work ethic. They are paid the equivalent statutory rate as British workers as laid down by the BEC if employed direct and work quickly and accurately with minimal defects. They don't want to be on benefits..they want to earn real money, work like Trojans and expect to pay tax on it. exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 In my experience of foreign labour in the construction industry, and I have employed them over many years, they are polite, reliable, honest and trustworthy with a superb work ethic. They are paid the equivalent statutory rate as British workers as laid down by the BEC if employed direct and work quickly and accurately with minimal defects. They don't want to be on benefits..they want to earn real money, work like Trojans and expect to pay tax on it. But not if employed via an agency?, exploitation at its very very best. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Just a point and I dont know how it figures with you lot My bro in law is self employed Him and his dad are partners in a limited company They pay tax on the companies profits not their wages? Dont know if thats the right way it works out Depends on how they do it. They can pay themselves a very low salary then take a dividend at the end of the FY. The government of the day sets out tax policy. Tax planning to minimise tax paid is legal. Tax scams such as the mobile phone VAT merry go round is illegal, major difference. Anyone offering to pay for something in cash is in theory encouraging Tax avoidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 no need to thank me even though you are getting some of it, role on independence eh! never said for one minute that the self employed should not claim legitimate tax relief, you knew that but it did not suit your sarcastic answer did it? I refer to the cash in hand payments, reduced wage claims,only paying yourself 30 bob an hour the wife as the secretary and the washer as a business need etc etc,oh and PS I dont work for billy the bodger, do you ? or are you billy? KW The reason I said that was not sarcasm, You do keep knocking the self employed i wonder why? one employs you. Unfortunately I am a bit of a bodger I am not an employee I have to make a living as best i can that includes building, fishing, farming, whatever I can to feed my family, I'm proud to be British and what i like most about the British is their tolerance and decency. I pay as little tax as I can because I reckon we pay more than enough tax on everything else, I also think that some of this tax goes towards making it not financially viable for people to find work, employed or self employed, I do not begrudge the unemployed their benefit far from it been there done that, I do begrudge tax fraud especially by multi -nationals and the like and understand that unemployment benefit is a drop in the ocean compared, I am sick of racism and the blame society we find ourselves in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Oh yeah, what is sensible about.................. There is one simple way to solve this problem for once and all do what they did after the war and build lots of new homes for people to live in... This country is on it's knees, unemployment levels high, we have less working people paying for growing numbers of people on benefits already, standard of living down and many complaining how hard daily life is, and those are the ones working....so who is in a position to cough up for all these new homes? Whilst you are building all these new homes how about demanding an increase from the Tooth Fairy as well...say £1000 a tooth and make sure there is a Range Rover in every drive as you hand over the new homes because they will obviously have to be out in the country, and these poor souls will be miles from civilisation, and keep your options open to build them extensions as their families grow! One way to pay for all of the new homes that we need is to use some of the money that people pay in to pension funds to build lots of new houses for rent that would give a good guaranteed income with little or no risk as apposed to what they do at present give the money to greedy bankers to gamble with on the stock exchange or buy up all of this dodgy bundles of debt that the banks say will make them lots of money when they now full well that is is wothless. Oh and to add to my point the government has just said that people can take there money out instead of buying a pension as it is such a bad investment what you get back for your money. Edited April 12, 2014 by four-wheel-drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 One way to pay for all of the new homes that we need is to use some of the money that people pay in to pension funds to build lots of new houses for rent that would give a good guaranteed income with little or no risk as apposed to what they do at present give the money to greedy bankers to gamble with on the stock exchange or buy up all of this dodgy bundles of debt that the banks say will make them lots of money when they now full well that is is wothless. Oh and to add to my point the government has just said that people can take there money out instead of buying a pension as it is such a bad investment what you get back for your money. It was Government legislation that contributed to the Pension mess, this is not all down to the bankers directly, the Government are now changes rules they introduced. And there has been nothing to stop Pension Investment money being thrown into the building trade historically, and if the Investment Institutions thought that is where the money was to be made then that is where the money would have gone! It is in their best interests to generate as big a return as possible, not simply for your benefit, but their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 But not if employed via an agency?, exploitation at its very very best. KW Even agency workers have to be paid the Construction Industries statutory rate..I have no knowledge of other industries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Even agency workers have to be paid the Construction Industries statutory rate..I have no knowledge of other industries. On the flip side, I don't have knowledge of statutory construction industry rates, but all agency workers (foreign or not) in the UK benefit from the minimum wage just like everyone else. I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of the actual levels of the minimum wage, but I think it's fair to say that if there wasn't one at all, it would be a lot lower! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 It was Government legislation that contributed to the Pension mess, this is not all down to the bankers directly, the Government are now changes rules they introduced. And there has been nothing to stop Pension Investment money being thrown into the building trade historically, and if the Investment Institutions thought that is where the money was to be made then that is where the money would have gone! It is in their best interests to generate as big a return as possible, not simply for your benefit, but their own. Not necassarily bankers get there commision just for doing deals if it all goes pair shapped its makes no difference to them they still get paid why do you think the dividends these insurance people pay out are so bad its down to the banks selling them the junk loans that they want to get rid of as they are rubbish if the money was put into new houses for rent it does not cost councils £200.000 to build a new house probably not half of that so they would be on to a good thing if only this stupid government would let them do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Firstly, the country is not on its knees, not by any stretch of the imagination, look at Greece, Spain or any of the usual suspects in Africa to see a country going down the pan. Secondly, the previous labour govt raided the pension schemes and sold off the gold. Balls was an advisor then and he wants us to trust him again?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Firstly, the country is not on its knees, not by any stretch of the imagination, look at Greece, Spain or any of the usual suspects in Africa to see a country going down the pan. Secondly, the previous labour govt raided the pension schemes and sold off the gold. Balls was an advisor then and he wants us to trust him again?..... +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Firstly, the country is not on its knees, not by any stretch of the imagination, look at Greece, Spain or any of the usual suspects in Africa to see a country going down the pan. Secondly, the previous labour govt raided the pension schemes and sold off the gold. Balls was an advisor then and he wants us to trust him again?..... You can't really compare the UK and countres in the euro zone. We are able to print money at will (hello - QE). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Not necassarily bankers get there commision just for doing deals if it all goes pair shapped its makes no difference to them they still get paid why do you think the dividends these insurance people pay out are so bad its down to the banks selling them the junk loans that they want to get rid of as they are rubbish if the money was put into new houses for rent it does not cost councils £200.000 to build a new house probably not half of that so they would be on to a good thing if only this stupid government would let them do it. Its down to the pension funds legislation and the firms buying the wrong stuff, plenty of people have got rich over the last few years..my comment was..... It was Government legislation that contributed to the Pension mess, this is not all down to the bankers directly. I didn't say the bankers had no part in it. Whichever way you want to look at it, investing in building/property on the scale you have mentioned is not going to happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 You can't really compare the UK and countres in the euro zone. We are able to print money at will (hello - QE). True, we can but unless we have something solid behind it, Inflation would have shot up which even if you take the worst estimates, hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 The subject of bankers brings us back to housing again. There are two reasons why there is a housing crisis (insofar as there is one - really there is a funding crisis): too many people and not enough houses. Personally I'd attack the problem from both ends simultaneously. The point about mass migration and the unsustainable pressure it puts on an already severely overcrowded country has been made and I shan't flog it to death. But the reason not enough houses are being built is because people can't afford to buy them; and people can't afford to buy them because we have a grossly over-valued housing sector. The average house price is five times the average income. That is not affordable. It is not mortgage-able. To make it artificially mortgage-able and thus avoid the very thing which was most needed - a sustained house price contraction - the previous government under the genius stewardship of Wee Wullie Broon, expanded the money supply, suppressed interest rates and disabled the regulatory function of the Bank of England, unleashing a tidal wave of "cheap" debt and producing a nation of wannabe Channel 4 property developers. When there is little return on lending money the only way to maintain margins is to lend it in greater amounts to more people, which inevitably means approving house price inflating mortgages for people who shouldn't even have credit cards. Do it for long enough and the market assumes an artificially high level that is sustained only by ever more unservicable debts. That is a housing bubble. When those unservicable debts can be deferred no longer you have what the Americans euphemistically call a sub-prime crisis, followed by a crash. Except our crash didn't happen because it was cushioned by near-zero interest rates, panic-stricken government bail-outs and printing money. The demand (though not the need) crashed but the housing bubble didn't so much burst as get cut adrift. Its still there: artificially high prices floating above the economy's reach with people who can't afford to borrow and banks who can't afford to lend. Fantastic if you've already got property and wads of collateral, catastrophic if you have nothing more than a housing association rent book.The Government's response is to swell the population of a country which for the above reasons already cannot house itself in the hope that that will stimulate... well, something or other - they're not really sure what.. and then re-inflate house prices by underwriting a help-to buy scheme with taxpayers money (which is borrowed). You really couldn't make it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I'm entirely of your way of thinking on that post Gimlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Your post makes real sense but not sure what the alternative are other than to let the housing market stagnate until the entry level youngsters catch up. That then has a knock on effect on retail, the building trades etc Edited April 13, 2014 by keg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Interesting read again gimlet you can certainly sharpen up a quiet sunday night, All successive governments seem to use house prices as a yardstick of their success, including some famous conservatives. I agree house prices are to high but surely this must have something to do with the cost of new building, Perhaps the government are happy for house prices to be artificially high so that the lucky few with property and wads of collateral can allow some of the collateral to syphon down to the less financially secure whilst keeping their mainstream voters happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Anyone offering to pay for something in cash is in theory encouraging Tax avoidance. cash is king but gold will do Edited April 13, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Firstly, the country is not on its knees, not by any stretch of the imagination, look at Greece, Spain or any of the usual suspects in Africa to see a country going down the pan. Secondly, the previous labour govt raided the pension schemes and sold off the gold. Balls was an advisor then and he wants us to trust him again?..... according to money week magazine the real depts of the uk are 900% of our assets or 9 times what we are worth if thats true i would say we are in trouble so i hope its not true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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