.17HMR Equipment

[dadioles]

After reading your post I came to the conclusion that .22lr is probably the most suitable rifle unless you go for FAC Air (I do not have any experience of FAC Air).

 

If the land is not suitable for .22lr because of ricochet problems and the proximity of houses, it certainly is not suitable for hmr either!!

 

Shooting at night with the hmr will be a nuisance for the neighbours and may draw unwanted attention to the activity.

 

Sorry, but that is the reality of your location.

[kent]

After reading your post I came to the conclusion that .22lr is probably the most suitable rifle unless you go for FAC Air (I do not have any experience of FAC Air).

 

If the land is not suitable for .22lr because of ricochet problems and the proximity of houses, it certainly is not suitable for hmr either!!

 

Shooting at night with the hmr will be a nuisance for the neighbours and may draw unwanted attention to the activity.

 

Sorry, but that is the reality of your location.

 

Yeah its been said, I do wish this single bit of advice was listened to as you cant call back the bullet that does

[Mentalmac]

I have an illuminated reticule thingy too, was low light the other day so thought I would turn it on to see what it was like! RUBBISH. Everywhere I looked after taking a shot had a green reticule in it! Highly annoying.

[Harry Callahan]

No idea of other scopes but my Hawke has 5 different brightness settings for the IR, both red and green. I find red utterly useless but the green on the lowest setting isnt too bad, can see the cross clearly along with target your viewing.

 

I prefer not to use it but i played with it one night there wasnt much out to shoot at....

[Dougy]

But not every one is in the 40% tax bracket. Get the best you can afford to pay without leaving you short.

[mick miller]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the information that proves that the hmr ricochets as much, or more than the 22lr. Because, hand on heart I have experienced entirely the opposite. As far as I'm concerned, and until I find out otherwise, the hmr is a frangible round that pretty much destroys itself on impact with most mildly solid surfaces. So that includes rabbits, soil, stones, sticks etc. You have after break up a teeny piece of plastic and a tiny amount of lead, as compared to the solid, rather large 40gn lump of a .22lr hollowpoint pinging off into the distance. I know which of the two I'd rather take my chances with.

 

I ask out of genuine curiosity. As far as the noise issue goes, I shoot close to urban sprawl into former countryside areas and would suggest that the noise is perfectly acceptable. Most houses now are double glazed, with windows closed the noise is barely noticeable. I've certainly not had many complaints over the years, people seemed more perturbed by the lamp playing across the fields than the shots, in case it was burglars. A switch to night vision and I barely get noticed these days, despite the supersonic crack of the hummer.

 

EDIT: perhaps at extremes of the hmr range this would become more likely as the speed of the projectile reduces dramatically?

Edited April 22, 2014 by mick miller

[kent]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the information that proves that the hmr ricochets as much, or more than the 22lr. Because, hand on heart I have experienced entirely the opposite. As far as I'm concerned, and until I find out otherwise, the hmr is a frangible round that pretty much destroys itself on impact with most mildly solid surfaces. So that includes rabbits, soil, stones, sticks etc. You have after break up a teeny piece of plastic and a tiny amount of lead, as compared to the solid, rather large 40gn lump of a .22lr hollowpoint pinging off into the distance. I know which of the two I'd rather take my chances with.

 

I ask out of genuine curiosity. As far as the noise issue goes, I shoot close to urban sprawl into former countryside areas and would suggest that the noise is perfectly acceptable. Most houses now are double glazed, with windows closed the noise is barely noticeable. I've certainly not had many complaints over the years, people seemed more perturbed by the lamp playing across the fields than the shots, in case it was burglars. A switch to night vision and I barely get noticed these days, despite the supersonic crack of the hummer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: perhaps at extremes of the hmr range this would become more likely as the speed of the projectile reduces dramatically?

 

 

You will never find such proof but a guarantee I can generate HMR ricochets to order almost (it hates sedge rush for instance) . All round ricochet and yes even light ones that start off at a sedate 2400 fps and shed energy and speed real fast. If you shoot with it in mind that it wont ricochet you are well above the safe limits of its use.

I can honestly say I haven't had a .22 ricochet in the last few years that's because if I am unsure I don't shoot and have learned the when and were. Here is a clue as to how not to get ricochets, treat mostly all rifles as equal rimfire and centrefire.

[jeffo223]

But not every one is in the 40% tax bracket. Get the best you can afford to pay without leaving you short.

wish I was on that sort of coin!!!

 

Paul

[ben0850]

I have both .22lr and HMR and tend to use both in equal measure. I use the HMR for summer evenings and quiet nights lamping whilst the .22lr is my workhorse for lamping during the winter months.

I have to say that I am at the point of not using the .22 if shooting our arable land post drilling or ploughing as exposed soil tends to make it richochet on demand.

The only richochet I have experienced with the HMR is similar to Kent when I've been close to thick brush or deeper cover.

Edited April 22, 2014 by ben0850

[mick miller]

You will never find such proof but a guarantee I can generate HMR ricochets to order almost (it hates sedge rush for instance) .

Thanks for that, I'm going to try some 'safe' experimentation with that in mind.

Edited April 22, 2014 by mick miller

[dadioles]

Some of the responses are quite disturbing. Complacency rules. The stupidity of those that have managed to persuade themselves that .17 hmr is safer than .22 lr on the grounds that it is less likely to ricochet and can therefore be used in places where the .22 lr would be too dangerous puts into question their suitability to hold a firearms certificate. I just hope that you do not learn the hard way.

 

Flack helmet on and taking cover.....

[Fisheruk]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the information that proves that the hmr ricochets as much, or more than the 22lr. Because, hand on heart I have experienced entirely the opposite. As far as I'm concerned, and until I find out otherwise, the hmr is a frangible round that pretty much destroys itself on impact with most mildly solid surfaces. So that includes rabbits, soil, stones, sticks etc. You have after break up a teeny piece of plastic and a tiny amount of lead, as compared to the solid, rather large 40gn lump of a .22lr hollowpoint pinging off into the distance. I know which of the two I'd rather take my chances with.

 

I ask out of genuine curiosity. As far as the noise issue goes, I shoot close to urban sprawl into former countryside areas and would suggest that the noise is perfectly acceptable. Most houses now are double glazed, with windows closed the noise is barely noticeable. I've certainly not had many complaints over the years, people seemed more perturbed by the lamp playing across the fields than the shots, in case it was burglars. A switch to night vision and I barely get noticed these days, despite the supersonic crack of the hummer.

 

EDIT: perhaps at extremes of the hmr range this would become more likely as the speed of the projectile reduces dramatically?

I'm with you Mick.

I've put thousands of rounds through my hmr and never had a ricochet. Let's face it when you are hunting live quarry you don't let the shot go until you know it is going to kill the critter. When you hit the target it explodes on impact, nothing left to ricochet. If you want to zero on bad ground put a piece of wood out at the range, felt pen a cross on it and you will never have a ricochet. Keep your target to less than 150 meters and there is still enough energy to fragment. With your proper respect for live quarry would you really expect a clean kill everytime with an hmr beyond that, I wouldn't so I don't try it.

Enjoy your hunting.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Fisheruk

[mick miller]

And I don't think anyone thinks it's 'safer' in comparison to a 22lr. A safe shot is a safe shot - no one is advocating shooting toward houses with an hmr because it's 'safer'.

 

I have simply experienced too many ricochets with the .22 and rabbits, with I can only assume, the bullet passing through and deflecting off a stone or object behind. With the hmr I have had a 'perceived' very few. That doesn't make it safer in my eyes, just preferable to use. Limiting the risk from bouncy lumps of lead.

 

Almost all the rabbits shot with my hmr have huge trauma to the head, clearly showing that the bullet has performed as it should and expanded. Very occasionally the round can pencil when aim was slightly low and the neck is struck, even then the frequency of 'perceived' ricochet is almost nil.

[kent]

And I don't think anyone thinks it's 'safer' in comparison to a 22lr. A safe shot is a safe shot - no one is advocating shooting toward houses with an hmr because it's 'safer'.

 

I have simply experienced too many ricochets with the .22 and rabbits, with I can only assume, the bullet passing through and deflecting off a stone or object behind. With the hmr I have had a 'perceived' very few. That doesn't make it safer in my eyes, just preferable to use. Limiting the risk from bouncy lumps of lead.

 

Almost all the rabbits shot with my hmr have huge trauma to the head, clearly showing that the bullet has performed as it should and expanded. Very occasionally the round can pencil when aim was slightly low and the neck is struck, even then the frequency of 'perceived' ricochet is almost nil.

 

You see not all are perceived. I once had a 140 grn bullet cut a line across a dew soaked field after exiting a deer at a really peculiar and unexpected angle, hit a stone or something hidden in the the backstop and straight across the field leaving a trail of dew . This was a long time ago now and taught me the value of assessing the backdrop as well as the backstop and I still feel cold about it now. NOT A SOUND WAS PERCIEVED other than the impact being seen on the backstop in an unexpected place I might have missed the plume of dew across the field that followed, the spent bullets only scream when they are all mushed up, spinning wildly and traveling quite slowly.

I was lucky and was using the rifle in a remote area, I think 9 out of ten stalkers would have called that shot safe like I did but my shot assessment criteria rose a lot that day

[r1steele]

I'm with you Mick.

I've put thousands of rounds through my hmr and never had a ricochet. Let's face it when you are hunting live quarry you don't let the shot go until you know it is going to kill the critter. When you hit the target it explodes on impact, nothing left to ricochet. If you want to zero on bad ground put a piece of wood out at the range, felt pen a cross on it and you will never have a ricochet. Keep your target to less than 150 meters and there is still enough energy to fragment. With your proper respect for live quarry would you really expect a clean kill everytime with an hmr beyond that, I wouldn't so I don't try it.

Enjoy your hunting.

How do you know you have never had a ricochet? You don't always hear them. Good on you for never having missed what you're shooting at though.

[kent]

Some of the responses are quite disturbing. Complacency rules. The stupidity of those that have managed to persuade themselves that .17 hmr is safer than .22 lr on the grounds that it is less likely to ricochet and can therefore be used in places where the .22 lr would be too dangerous puts into question their suitability to hold a firearms certificate. I just hope that you do not learn the hard way.

 

Flack helmet on and taking cover.....

 

when you read through the thread carefully at what some are saying this is a spot on observation

[tignme]

Thers a very good example of Rick O shea on utube. an american i think was shooting centrefire at a range and the bullet came back off the target and bounced off his head.