Canada's and the GL

[birdsallpl]

In my experience as a Wildfowler for nearly 45 years I have met many Wildfowlers in my time from all over the UK. Almost without exception they all had a great respect for their quarry. Almost all I know go on to the marsh and foreshore because it is a magical,lovely place to be. Yes we shoot birds, but it is far more about the environment and the hunt, not the kill.

[Penelope]

In my experience as a Wildfowler for nearly 45 years I have met many Wildfowlers in my time from all over the UK. Almost without exception they all had a great respect for their quarry. Almost all I know go on to the marsh and foreshore because it is a magical,lovely place to be. Yes we shoot birds, but it is far more about the environment and the hunt, not the kill.

[Fisheruk]

 

and the evidence for this happening on a scale big enough to drastically impact numbers is where?

 

Am I right in thinking these would be resident Canada staying in the UK when they should have migrated with the rest of them? Why would this not be invasive like the rabbit etc?

 

My questions are purely out of interest, I have no opinion one way or the other.

Canadas don't migrate. Least the ones around here don't.

[Fisheruk]

If anyone hasn't seen a flock of 50 or so adults and goslings doing damage on a sprouting crop or a field of planted out brasicas they have no business commenting.

For anyone to suggest you should then apply to Natural England for a special licence also shows absolute ignorance of how the system works. Do you know how long it takes to get a special licence.

When a farmer calls because he has a problem he need it sorting straight away.

When they can fly we have flocks of 100 +. A shot or two with the cf, moves them on. There is no point in trying to exterminate them.

There are still plenty of Canadas around here.

[Chad63]

Since I posted the above no one has said they have witnessed any so called slaughter. It appears to me that a lot of emotion is being created about what could happen instead of the reality. I think what I said in an even earlier post to be true. The responsible shooter will take control of the situation anyway.

Still be interested to hear of any so called mass slaughter though

 

I have, taken on barley stubbles during early August last year. Not for crop protection or health issues but simply because they can! I've also seen pictures on this forum and facebook of large numbers taken by the "kill it cos it's there brigade". Again on stubbles where no damage is being caused!

[thepasty]

ah yes but the GL says prevention and not protection, maybe that group of birds had been kicking the **** out of crops recently and they had a good chance to sort them out.

 

again we're all talking ifs and buts, not a single piece of clear evidence has been put forward to back up the statements being made and until statements are backed up by fact they are simply opinions and we all know how miss guided they can be.

[anser2]

Charlie T to ask if I have ever seen a goose just shows you do not read many posts on here . For the record I have lived with geese for the past 40 years. I used to release greylag and barnacles on to my shoot where they grew wheat and grew a lot of grass . We never had any serious problem because if they started to show any interest in the wheat a few rocket scarers soo changed their mind. Later I worked for one of the lagrest wildfowl collections in the world and kept and bred almost every species of goose there is. For the past 30 years I lived in Norfolk and within 15 miles of my house there three greylag\canada roosts totaling 1200 birds, three major brent roosts holding 8,000 geese , a white front roost of about 300 birds and a major pink foot roost holding up to 90,000 geese. So yes I do have a pretty good idea what a goose looks like.

 

I also have interests on a private farmland\wetland reserve where we have large numbers of greylag , brent and pinks where management is neccessary. Again we use scare rockets which work very well.

 

So Charley I know what a goose looks like and I have a lot of experiance in managing them and shooting them out of season is not one of them.

[anser2]

Thepasty I sugest you read a couple of good books on wildfowling such as "BB"s Tides ending or P Scott's "Morning flight " then perhaps you would understand what windfowling is all about and killing a bird is only part of it.

 

You ask for evidence just read the post and other similar ones and you will find all the evidence you need.

Edited April 29, 2014 by anser2

[artschool]

ah yes but the GL says prevention and not protection, maybe that group of birds had been kicking the **** out of crops recently and they had a good chance to sort them out.

 

again we're all talking ifs and buts, not a single piece of clear evidence has been put forward to back up the statements being made and until statements are backed up by fact they are simply opinions and we all know how miss guided they can be.

hear, hear.

[kent]

Charlie T to ask if I have ever seen a goose just shows you do not read many posts on here . For the record I have lived with geese for the past 40 years. I used to release greylag and barnacles on to my shoot where they grew wheat and grew a lot of grass . We never had any serious problem because if they started to show any interest in the wheat a few rocket scarers soo changed their mind. Later I worked for one of the lagrest wildfowl collections in the world and kept and bred almost every species of goose there is. For the past 30 years I lived in Norfolk and within 15 miles of my house there three greylag\canada roosts totaling 1200 birds, three major brent roosts holding 8,000 geese , a white front roost of about 300 birds and a major pink foot roost holding up to 90,000 geese. So yes I do have a pretty good idea what a goose looks like.

 

I also have interests on a private farmland\wetland reserve where we have large numbers of greylag , brent and pinks where management is neccessary. Again we use scare rockets which work very well.

 

So Charley I know what a goose looks like and I have a lot of experiance in managing them and shooting them out of season is not one of them.

 

Why can I not find a smiley for applause

[CharlieT]

Charlie T to ask if I have ever seen a goose just shows you do not read many posts on here . For the record I have lived with geese for the past 40 years. I used to release greylag and barnacles on to my shoot where they grew wheat and grew a lot of grass . We never had any serious problem because if they started to show any interest in the wheat a few rocket scarers soo changed their mind. Later I worked for one of the lagrest wildfowl collections in the world and kept and bred almost every species of goose there is. For the past 30 years I lived in Norfolk and within 15 miles of my house there three greylag\canada roosts totaling 1200 birds, three major brent roosts holding 8,000 geese , a white front roost of about 300 birds and a major pink foot roost holding up to 90,000 geese. So yes I do have a pretty good idea what a goose looks like.

 

I also have interests on a private farmland\wetland reserve where we have large numbers of greylag , brent and pinks where management is neccessary. Again we use scare rockets which work very well.

 

So Charley I know what a goose looks like and I have a lot of experiance in managing them and shooting them out of season is not one of them.

 

Actually, I said "have you ever seen a goose defecate", but because I used the word **** instead it was filtered out. Please learn to read my posts !!

 

Why do you refuse to accept that land managers should have the ability to protect their amenity/agricultural land from economic loss.

 

Just because you have never seen the damage they can do in your part of the world doesn't mean they don't cause any.......................where do you think they graze.

 

Oh, and just one last point, all the rockets in the world won't move them on when they are flightless.

Edited April 29, 2014 by CharlieT

[kent]

Charlie, lets face it your in the wrong weight class here on this one

[birdsallpl]

I have, taken on barley stubbles during early August last year. Not for crop protection or health issues but simply because they can! I've also seen pictures on this forum and facebook of large numbers taken by the "kill it cos it's there brigade". Again on stubbles where no damage is being caused!

Did you know the people responsible, 'kill it cos it's there brigade' ?

[thepasty]

killing a bird is only part of it.

 

wildfowlers arent special, many of us non wildfowlers regard ourselves as countryman and enjoy all aspects of the countryside, the act of killing something is again a small part of that experience.

Edited April 30, 2014 by thepasty

[birdsallpl]

wildfowlers arent special, many of us non wildfowlers regard ourselves as countryman and enjoy all aspects of the countryside, the act of killing something is again a small part of that experience.

You are right about a lot of non Wildfowlers regarding themselves as countrymen, However Wildfowlers although not special as such are a different breed altogether. The amount of times I have had said to me by game shooters, rough shooters and the rest, that 'I must be crackers laying out in a cold creek for hours without even a shot, got to be something wrong with me'

Well unless you do it you will never understand the pure thrill of it and the beauty of these places. I have experienced a closeness to the natural world that Attenborough would struggle to replicate. I have done all disciplines of shooting in my time. I enjoy them all but going out onto the marsh on winter mornings is a true passion.

[thepasty]

a bold generalised sweeping statement thats nothing but conjecture, you simply cannot know how we all enjoy the countryside.

[birdsallpl]

a bold generalised sweeping statement thats nothing but conjecture, you simply cannot know how we all enjoy the countryside.

Well I enjoy the countryside, I love sitting in my hide when pigeon shooting and watching the natural world. I love standing in a wood whilst roost shooting and listening to the pheasants going to roost. I love walking up on rough shoots and appreciating the countryside and all it has to offer. I enjoy it all. The point I am making is that for me none of it compares with being out on a marsh. If you have never experienced it, you can have no idea.

[thepasty]

The point I am making is that for me none of it compares with being out on a marsh.

 

Thats my point, for you none of it compares which is a personal thing based on you own values and opinion, that doesnt make it any more or less special (or whatever you want to call it) than other pursuits.

[birdsallpl]

I agree it's not 'special' but it is most definitely different and the people who participate usually do it for the love of being there, which makes it different to other disciplines. I don't know many pigeon shooters who would sit in a hide all day and not care if they pulled the trigger or not, just to be there. I don't know of any game shot who would stand on a peg and not care if they never got a bird over them.

The physical hardship in doing it makes it different. The only other shooting discipline I can imagine to be close to the physical work involved is true highland stalking. ( I say 'imagine' because I haven't tried it yet)

So without labouring the debate too much, it is different in many ways. But I agree not special as such.

[artschool]

this thread has been very interesting in my understanding the point of view of the wild fowling fraternity.

[CharlieT]

Charlie, lets face it your in the wrong weight class here on this one

 

You're right, you obviously are superior to me, I can't help being a very humble man of the soil, who has worked my little bit of land for the past 55 years.

 

However, what I have learned is that farming is a constant struggle against the weather and pests, whether these pests be weeds, deer, rabbits, moles, pigeons or geese.

In the big scheme of things, what a few vociferous anti's have to say doesn't matter to me.

 

What does matter is that our lawmakers have taken a sensible, enlightened and pragmatic stance on the matter and have addressed agricultural damage caused by pests. Because of this enlightened view, I, for example, am able to control deer and Canada geese out of season, all the other avian pests listed on the GL and mammalian pests as and when I need.

 

This does not mean I or others need or wish to shoot these pests everyday, rather it provides us with the means to do so if and when necessary, much like having my vet on a retainer should my stock become sick.

 

Quite why you or others feel the need to belittle and dismiss out of hand my and other farmers' needs is beyond me. But I guess that's just human nature and society's tendency to selfishness.

 

However, I can rest easy at night knowing that I have been afforded the ability to control these species if and when and for someone not of your league that will do me fine.

[Scully]

I agree it's not 'special' but it is most definitely different and the people who participate usually do it for the love of being there, which makes it different to other disciplines. I don't know many pigeon shooters who would sit in a hide all day and not care if they pulled the trigger or not, just to be there. I don't know of any game shot who would stand on a peg and not care if they never got a bird over them.

The physical hardship in doing it makes it different. The only other shooting discipline I can imagine to be close to the physical work involved is true highland stalking. ( I say 'imagine' because I haven't tried it yet)

So without labouring the debate too much, it is different in many ways. But I agree not special as such.

Commercial game shoots do it for financial reasons; that is their function. If someone is paying 35 quid plus vat per bird then they expect to get birds over them, as do all shooters paying for shooting, including those guided on the foreshore, however much that may cost. If they repeatedly don't get a shot after paying for travel, accommadation and shooting, would they go back next season?

You can't really make sweeping generalisations about any aspect of shooting though. There are wildfowlers who love to be 'out there' and will do their utmost to get a shot, but if it doesn't happen then it's no biggy.There's always next time. Us on our rough shoot will do our best to get a decent bag, because that is what we're here for, and despite the not too small amounts of money we've all put into it it doesn't always happen. But being out there with like minded people, most of whom just happen to be friends, having the craic and a few laughs, is enjoyable also.

We run our own rough shoot and our own syndicate; not all of us get shots, and again, despite the financial outlay, we do it year after year. It's all 'special' to me.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Scully

[Scully]

 

You're right, you obviously are superior to me, I can't help being a very humble man of the soil, who has worked my little bit of land for the past 55 years.

 

However, what I have learned is that farming is a constant struggle against the weather and pests, whether these pests be weeds, deer, rabbits, moles, pigeons or geese.

In the big scheme of things, what a few vociferous anti's have to say doesn't matter to me.

 

What does matter is that our lawmakers have taken a sensible, enlightened and pragmatic stance on the matter and have addressed agricultural damage caused by pests. Because of this enlightened view, I, for example, am able to control deer and Canada geese out of season, all the other avian pests listed on the GL and mammalian pests as and when I need.

 

This does not mean I or others need or wish to shoot these pests everyday, rather it provides us with the means to do so if and when necessary, much like having my vet on a retainer should my stock become sick.

 

Quite why you or others feel the need to belittle and dismiss out of hand my and other farmers' needs is beyond me. But I guess that's just human nature and society's tendency to selfishness.

 

However, I can rest easy at night knowing that I have been afforded the ability to control these species if and when and for someone not of your league that will do me fine.

I have to agree with this. The question of the GL and Canadas does the rounds on this forum with a steady regularity.

We shoot over a lot of arable land, and if the landowners say to us 'get rid of those Canadas' then we 'get rid'. It's pest control.That's all it is.

[birdsallpl]

Scully, Just for info. If you repeatedly don't get a shot after paying for travel, accommadation and shooting, would you go back next season?

Last November myself and two other guns spent a week at Montrose basin Wildfowling. In February myself and three other guns spent a week at Wigtown bay Wildfowling. Haven't got a clue what it all cost but clearly it did. We all blanked on both trips. Maybe we are just rubbish!!

Will We be back trying again. You bet we will and I can't wait

[Scully]

Scully, Just for info. If you repeatedly don't get a shot after paying for travel, accommadation and shooting, would you go back next season?

Last November myself and two other guns spent a week at Montrose basin Wildfowling. In February myself and three other guns spent a week at Wigtown bay Wildfowling. Haven't got a clue what it all cost but clearly it did. We all blanked on both trips. Maybe we are just rubbish!!

Will We be back trying again. You bet we will and I can't wait

Good for you. I'll bet rhose in the Montrose basin cant wait for your return also.

Proves my point we shouldn't make sweeping generalisations.

Would I personally return to a place after not getting a shot after paying for digs, travel and shoot fees? No.