Do you really want this lot

[welsh1]

Ukip are not in europe to participate and debate, they are there to be a thorn in the side,and to show the lunacy and agenda of the eu and ridicule it at every oppertunity,something they have done very well.

 

As for people who are not household names,lets do the top thirteen lib dems and top thirteen tories.

[poontang]

How many people can name the MEP's for the Lib Lab Cons?

 

Very few I should imagine.

 

To be fair, being a 'household name' doesn't make that persons view any more plausible than that of anyone else. Does it?

 

It seems to me that over the last 20 years politics in this country has become more about personality, spin doctors and photo opportunities than actually facing up to, and dealing with, the real issues which affect real people. It's become a game of one upmanship with little regard to want the electorate actually want.

It's become a game for professional politicians...and it needs to stop.

 

IF the 3 main parties had actually been listening to the public, and acting on their fears then Ukip wouldn't be the threat they are now.

They took their eye off the ball and ignored their voters. A mistake which is going to come back and bite them on the **** very soon.

 

They only have themselves to blame.

[Gordon R]

The longer people knock UKIP, the more their support will grow.

 

I'm quite tempted to vote for them myself.

[poontang]

The longer people knock UKIP, the more their support will grow.

 

I'm quite tempted to vote for them myself.

 

 

Come and join the 'People's Army' Gordon.

 

 

 

We've got fruitcake...

[FalconFN]

The longer people knock UKIP, the more their support will grow.

 

I'm quite tempted to vote for them myself.

Probably not the greatest reason to vote as Labour/Tories/Lib Dems tend to get a lot of people knocking them too....

 

They have fruitcake too but it tends to be borrowed, given to the rich or vegan, respectively.

[Gordon R]

All parties have their knockers, but the UKIP knockers seem a lot more desperate.

[woodcock11]

How many people can name the MEP's for the Lib Lab Cons?

 

Very few I should imagine.

 

 

Fair comment - I suppose, but as UKIP are just a one issue party, I would have thought that their MEPs should have had more significance but apart from Farage, they might as well not exist

 

Indeed, if Farage were run over by a bus tomorrow, where would UKIP be? For those of you who think he is the promised land, that should be a HUGE worry.....

[woodcock11]

Ukip are not in europe to participate and debate, they are there to be a thorn in the side,and to show the lunacy and agenda of the eu and ridicule it at every oppertunity,something they have done very well.

 

As for people who are not household names,lets do the top thirteen lib dems and top thirteen tories.

1. There are only nine not 13 UKIP MEPs - the rest of them have kind of gone.

 

2. If you think that not participating is a CONSTRUCTIVE way of participating in politics, then so be it - however, it does not really give us a lot to go on, does it? Turkeys at Christmas may be an appropriate analogy?

[Scully]

 

 

 

Where I believe that they let themselves down was by their abstentionist policy from participating in the debates and votes at Brussels and Strasbourg. If they were serious politicians, they should have stood up, spoken out and debated, rather than just launch into rather childish diatribes against the European Parliament hierarchy. ty[/quote

But it has never been UKIP's policy to enter into debate with a undemocratically elected parliament. As Farage said when he was asked by another euro MP what his intentions were, he stated it was his intention to see them all made redundant. He is not interested in debate with this

Parliament, but rather more interested in its abolishment.

Apologies for messy post; on phone. Fat thumbs ams small keyboard.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Scully

[welsh1]

1. There are only nine not 13 UKIP MEPs - the rest of them have kind of gone.

 

2. If you think that not participating is a CONSTRUCTIVE way of participating in politics, then so be it - however, it does not really give us a lot to go on, does it? Turkeys at Christmas may be an appropriate analogy?

It is explained to you time and time again but you seem to not understand,UKIP is a protest party, they are not in the eu to engage in politics,they are there to show the eu up,and expose the eu for what it is.To engage in the politics would be to accept the eu is a fully legitimate body voted for by the people for the people,but as the eu has an agenda of one state with no one person answerable to anyone,why should they bother with the eu.

[overandunder2012]

 

i always enjoy your reasoned observations. your insights have led me to the conclusion that the only way to confound the current political parties is to withhold my vote until some of them start to behave !

im beginning to think i cant put my vote to any of them

[islandgun]

im beginning to think i cant put my vote to any of them

Iv'e never thought any of them were worth a vote, more a vote for the least objectionable, come to think about it, UKIP refuse to vote in europe, perhaps we should follow suit, could even start a new party, dont vote party not sure how many votes they would get though

[overandunder2012]

these days you vote for the best of the worst, damage limitation . hobsons choice

[Gordon R]

Welsh1 - agreed.

[Gimlet]

It is explained to you time and time again but you seem to not understand,UKIP is a protest party, they are not in the eu to engage in politics,they are there to show the eu up,and expose the eu for what it is.To engage in the politics would be to accept the eu is a fully legitimate body voted for by the people for the people,but as the eu has an agenda of one state with no one person answerable to anyone,why should they bother with the eu.

 

Indeed.

In fact Ukip propose rather more than just leaving the EU. They propose that the UK join EFTA, the European Free Trade Association, alongside Norway and Switzerland. EFTA is closer to the original concept of a customs union that we were told the EU was going to be. A loose trade alliance of separate nations with no pretensions to statehood, no governing bureaucracy, no central legislature and no pooled sovereignty. Many Conservative and even some Labour MPs have long been in favour of this (George Osborne has been making encouraging noises).

There is nothing isolationist about Ukip's proposals. They want European trade but not European political union. And so do a growing number of people not only on Britain but right across the continent.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Gimlet

[Azzurri]

All parties have their knockers, but the UKIP knockers seem a lot more desperate.

 

Agreed. Cameron & Clegg are a proper pair

[kent]

All parties have their knockers, but the UKIP knockers seem a lot more desperate.

 

You know a good salesman is very careful about knocking the competitors, it mostly backfires

[kent]

Can I just make it clear that it costs us 55 million A DAY just in the club fee. Its estimated it costs us £165 Billion a year. Consider what we could do with this sort of money its bigger than the UK deficit! Were does this money come from but your pocket? Think about that the next time your in a hospital waiting list, you family allowance and married persons allowance, pension rights and entitlement gets cut, or perhaps when your placed in the dole line behind someone from a country you likely couldn't point to on a map

I don't doubt some will suffer if we cut and run but think on unless you really want to live under a European dictatorship and the money we are currently spending over there was spent here on building Britain for the British people, who can vote in and out of power those who do not do right by us. I will lay bets on Clegg and the like ending up in Brussels feathering his nest when they get ousted because we wont have another Con / Lib alliance for sure

[FalconFN]

Can I just make it clear that it costs us 55 million A DAY just in the club fee. Its estimated it costs us £165 Billion a year. Consider what we could do with this sort of money its bigger than the UK deficit! Were does this money come from but your pocket? Think about that the next time your in a hospital waiting list, you family allowance and married persons allowance, pension rights and entitlement gets cut, or perhaps when your placed in the dole line behind someone from a country you likely couldn't point to on a map

I don't doubt some will suffer if we cut and run but think on unless you really want to live under a European dictatorship and the money we are currently spending over there was spent here on building Britain for the British people, who can vote in and out of power those who do not do right by us. I will lay bets on Clegg and the like ending up in Brussels feathering his nest when they get ousted because we wont have another Con / Lib alliance for sure

Just to make it less clear there is much uncertainty about these matters but you Have quoted 2 figures, both of which come from UKIP, the first one relates to our net contribution to the EU but the ONS has our net contribution as half of what UKIP suggest at around £25 million a day. That is still a lot of money but it takes no account of the possible benefits the contribution, which brings us to the second figure which seems to be plucked out of the air by UPIK with no impartial data to back it up. These things are very complex and not a simple as a UKIP soundbite.

 

I do think the lack of democracy in the EU is worrying though, hence why we need a proper debate and vote.

[welsh1]

 

 

I do think the lack of democracy in the EU is worrying though, hence why we need a proper debate and vote.

 

You cannot have a proper debate when there is no democracy,leaders elected within,spewing out policy for their own gain,money that cannot be accounted for,and agendas that are secret.

End it now.

[kent]

Just to make it less clear there is much uncertainty about these matters but you Have quoted 2 figures, both of which come from UKIP, the first one relates to our net contribution to the EU but the ONS has our net contribution as half of what UKIP suggest at around £25 million a day. That is still a lot of money but it takes no account of the possible benefits the contribution, which brings us to the second figure which seems to be plucked out of the air by UPIK with no impartial data to back it up. These things are very complex and not a simple as a UKIP soundbite.

 

I do think the lack of democracy in the EU is worrying though, hence why we need a proper debate and vote.

You see you can mess with any numbers, net contributions - net of what exactly? This is the issue BS and burocracy trying to baffle brains. Take account of this benefit - 55 million a day into skills training and British business, I don't honestly care about French wines /polish pigs or German cars. Heck make it 25 million if you want - question is spend it here or there its your money and mine that we pay in tax its not magic money that just appears.

Have all the debate you want it just keeps the political class fed (and pigs if they are any different) I WANT OUT ASAP because its not a case of if just HOW and WHEN the EU experiment folds. If you take away peoples effective vote history shows what happens

[Gimlet]

Can I just make it clear that it costs us 55 million A DAY just in the club fee. Its estimated it costs us £165 Billion a year. Consider what we could do with this sort of money its bigger than the UK deficit! Were does this money come from but your pocket? Think about that the next time your in a hospital waiting list, you family allowance and married persons allowance, pension rights and entitlement gets cut, or perhaps when your placed in the dole line behind someone from a country you likely couldn't point to on a map

I don't doubt some will suffer if we cut and run but think on unless you really want to live under a European dictatorship and the money we are currently spending over there was spent here on building Britain for the British people, who can vote in and out of power those who do not do right by us. I will lay bets on Clegg and the like ending up in Brussels feathering his nest when they get ousted because we wont have another Con / Lib alliance for sure

 

Agree with that entirely. Except it isn't coming only out of our pockets, its worse than that: its coming out of our children's pockets. We're broke. Our Government, without our consent, is mortgaging the lives of the next generation to prop up this shambles.

[kent]

Yep, ours first coz mine don't pay tax yet they will inherit the debt we will never pay unless we end this, even if we take a hit (which I actually doubt , like I say we are the biggest customer not the biggest seller the balance is all wrong)

[poontang]

 

Agree with that entirely. Except it isn't coming only out of our pockets, its worse than that: its coming out of our children's pockets. We're broke. Our Government, without our consent, is mortgaging the lives of the next generation to prop up this shambles.

 

Explained very well here by Dan Hannan.

 

4.45 to 7.45 (though the rest is pretty good too).

 

[krugerandsmith]

 

Explained very well here by Dan Hannan.

 

4.45 to 7.45 (though the rest is pretty good too).

 

 

Brilliant.