Gully Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Just to clarify for some though, a privately owned field is still actually a public place. More clarification on this one required for me. So, if I'm shooting in a privately owned field I can be arrested for having a loaded firearm in a public place.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitron Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Old Bill is wrong........if there is a public foot path through the private field then fair enough the footpath is a public place,but anywhere away from the footpath is private and provided you have permission from the landowner/tenant and you shoot safely your within the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Just to clarify for some though, a privately owned field is still actually a public place. What utter ****!! I suggest a visit to Hendon is in order to brush up on the law. A private field is no more a public place than my front room is. It is exactly that A PRIVATE field. Just admit it the police got it wrong, and if they were so good at getting it right the CPS wouldn't have to throw everything out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 any road field or place the public have access can be considered public, something about the place being open to access? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 So trespassing no loner exists then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 The issue was more that it was classed as an Immitation firearm, if they had had a real gun and license they would have been fine. The law is an *** on this one. This place was privately owned and the landowner had given the public access hence it was deemed an offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 If you read back through this thread, so much seems to have changed in this story since it was first mentioned on here. Just to refresh some memories here is the link. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...mp;hl=sue+jones Does anyone have a link to the Appeal Court decision ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 It's just daft plain and simple. 1. they are not gypsies 2. they weren't practising a dry run on their local post office 3. blanks are erm blanks 4. they have no previous Mind you, I grew up climbing trees, making bonfires and shooting cap guns (what's that nowadays - trespass, arson and having an imitation firearm in a public place). I ask, where's the common sense. Robots! They are running the world now. They are amongst us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 So much angst, and I wasn't even invited From the little I know of the story it does seem a little off, but maybe something can be learnt from this. On another note though and I have been resisting the urge to post this as I didn't want to derail the thread, but feel I can do so now as it has had the serious answers .................. "No, however I do rember Janie Jones but she was in love with a Rock'n'Roll world.............." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 So trespassing no loner exists then? Without finding the definition verbatim a public place is: "Any place to which to public have access whether on payment or otherwise" No mention is made of permission or right to be there. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 That would make absolutely everywhere a public place then? (as you can access anywhere if you try hard enough) Can't be right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Old bill is right to a large degree......it is a standard definition in law used for many acts such as the firearms act, public order act, Road traffic act etc etc.......it was penned a long while ago and saves the bureaucrats time when churning out more and more legislation (some good and lots not so good). DFB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 That would make absolutely everywhere a public place then? (as you can access anywhere if you try hard enough)Can't be right? We've covered this before on the forum, but basically if somewhere is "secure" and has "private keep out" signs, then that would in general be considered to be a private place. The private / public place issue is long and complicated issue, with basically different offences having slightly different definitions ie for disorderly conduct a public place is someones garden but that is not a public place for the firearm act. In short, if you have easy and unhindered access to somewhere it's probably a public place in criminal law...not in civil law but we won't go into that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Would you say it could have fallen to the arresting officers' judgment and therefore discretion (and after taking all the above factors [1 to 4] into consideration) to help these ladies out and perhaps (for example) consider the place not as public enough as to warrant arresting them? Going back to where we started - if it is the case (as all the coppers on here say) that the CPS are muppets, is it not the case that someone actually has to get somewhere near to being arrested for their case to go before the CPS at all? What happened to a quiet word, a verbal warning and on your way and it's over job done? Does not compute, I don't make the laws, I only follow orders etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 That would make absolutely everywhere a public place then? (as you can access anywhere if you try hard enough) Can't be right? We've covered this before on the forum, but basically if somewhere is "secure" and has "private keep out" signs, then that would in general be considered to be a private place. The private / public place issue is long and complicated issue, with basically different offences having slightly different definitions ie for disorderly conduct a public place ia someones garden but that is not a public place for the firearm act. In short, if you have easy and unhindered access to somewhere it's probably a public place in criminal law...not in civil law but we won't go into that So no more standing in my back garden to clean my gun, because according to old bill I would have a firearm in a public place. Sorry for this Moderators but that it is absolute **** and you know it, like every other copper I have ever come accross, you will not admit to being wrong. It must be great going through life being a complete know it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Mungler mate, By their very nature coppers are not of the "ordinary" mould- look how many get turned away on application or binned during probation, but unfortunately some interview better than they are capable of working. Life always has it's losers whatever the job. Increasingly, the coppers on the street now have to evidence why someone shouldn't have been arrested. Not a problem for me with someone I know and trust, but why should I get in the **** over someone I don't know? That would make absolutely everywhere a public place then? (as you can access anywhere if you try hard enough) Can't be right? We've covered this before on the forum, but basically if somewhere is "secure" and has "private keep out" signs, then that would in general be considered to be a private place. he private / public place issue is long and complicated issue, with basically different offences having slightly different definitions ie for disorderly conduct a public place ia someones garden but that is not a public place for the firearm act. In short, if you have easy and unhindered access to somewhere it's probably a public place in criminal law...not in civil law but we won't go into that So no more standing in my back garden to clean my gun, because according to old bill I would have a firearm in a public place. Sorry for this Moderators but that it is absolute **** and you know it, like every other copper I have ever come accross, you will not admit to being wrong. It must be great going through life being a complete know it all ** M8 Did you actually read the last post, or just take some information from it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Whatever, Yawn Yawn, It is nice to know that your community has someone who holds themselves in such high esteem looking after them. Arrogant just isn't the right word. Moderators please close this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 What's the matter Matin? Are you being seen as argumentative and rude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Why's that? Fancy an easy arrest to make your crime figures look good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 That's about right, Arrest someone for not doing anything wrong. If you think that is argumentative and rude brace yourself, I haven't even started. Have they development a GATSO rudeness camera yet? Unless you have one of them you've got less than no chance me old mate! It would mean getting up from behind your desk and putting your coffee down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Increasingly, the coppers on the street now have to evidence why someone shouldn't have been arrested. Not a problem for me with someone I know and trust, but why should I get in the S_hit over someone I don't know? That may or may not be the case. My chums in the Met (one in the mounted branch, one in Romford, one in Stratford / Forest Gate and one in the TSG) indicate that they exercise discretion on a daily basis. I reckon the Met might be different, but if you do really have to justify why someone shouldn't be arrested then we are in 1984 under a police state. However, I reckon that's poo poo, because whenever the local ####s kick off round here all the coppers find a million reasons not to get involved and therefore must be quite deft at filing their "shouldn't get arrested" reports. The farmer whose farm I shoot over made himself an iron gate - very intricate very detailed and he sweated over it. It got nicked one night and he saw it hanging on the front path to a caravan at the local site. Were the police interested, were they ****. Perhaps that was them exercising their famous discretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 There is nothing wrong with this thread if people behave and debate responsibly, without personal attacks. Instead of editing posts with mock bad language in them, I will delete the whole post. Please read this, it is pinned at the head of the General Banter section. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...showtopic=15849 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Look guys, I can see this is getting out of hand. I don't say that the general population are this and that, so why do you feel that you can generalise about the old bill. If you've done the job fair enough, if you haven't how can you know what we do. By reading the papers? by seeing a patrol car do / not do something?, from reporting something on the phone and speaking possibly with a civillian employed by the police? Me personally I did fair stint in the Army- I'm no shrinking violet I can assure you. This will be my last post on this subject before you try to right the wrongs of the Army as well. All the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.