TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) So then Jimbo, what do you actually want to achieve from your shooting? You tell us that you are using a 30" barreled Beretta Silver Pigeon Game Gun, I would suggest that this was not designed for the type of shooting you are intent upon. I would suggest that the 32" barreled Beretta you tried was a designated clay shooting weapon, designed for that very purpose. If you know you are usually behind the target why do you not make an allowance? Why do you think some extra weight at the front of the gun will solve your perceived problem? Long barreled guns swing more steadily, on their own, a longer pair of barrels will not make up for shooting behind the target. I think you need to find a clay shooting ground with a shop on site and see if they will allow you to try several of their weapons on some clays. Good luck. All other targets I'm fine on and it's mostly the crossers I'm slightly behind with unless I proper push the swing through but with a heavier gun it seems a lot beter. The gun fits fine so just thought I would experiment with different options to see if it makes a difference, it may not but with out giving it ago I will never know ALL the other targets, crikey chap, what is your average? Hamster was typing at the same time as I was, read and think about his post, it says it all. If you are serious about shooting clays and getting good at it, get yourself the right weapon for the job. Edited June 9, 2014 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Westward - maintained lead cannot be used on a rising target, because you can't see the clay to maintain any lead. I have heard that some try to use that method by aiming at the side of the clay, but it is bringing in yet another variable into the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 long barrels are in fashion, thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 long barrels are in fashion, thats all. Depends, the 32" gun has been pretty popular since at least the early 90's if not late 80's so when does fashionable become the norm ? I agree 34" guns aren't everyones cup of tea but even then they seem to have their advocates for certain high pheasant quarters. Add to that the fact that long guns are invariably easier to sell on and fetch more !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 long barrels are in fashion, thats all. Then if that's the case they've been "in fashion" for a long time, I got my first set in 1993! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Westward - maintained lead cannot be used on a rising target, because you can't see the clay to maintain any lead. I have heard that some try to use that method by aiming at the side of the clay, but it is bringing in yet another variable into the equation. Not a problem unless you shoot with 1 eye closed in which case you're disadvantaged on several shots. Whatever method you try on a fast, steep teal, lead still has to be applied which means seeing the clay behind the barrels. Just the other day I watched countless people at a registered shoot missing exactly that target by trying to shoot it with a premounted trap shot and failing to apply lead. For those that used MMS and mounted with the muzzles ahead it was a simple shot. I agree that there's no single method for every shot but I've yet to find any type of significant lead shot where maintained isn't the best way. The greater the lead, the more unreliable swing through and pull away become. As for spot shooting I used it yesterday on a shallow climbing going away bird but it's only ever used occasionally. long barrels are in fashion, thats all. 32s are the standard now for Italian and German sporting clay guns, not so much on the Japanese because Miroku seems unwilling or unable to build lightweight multichoke barrels. I think Chris Childerhouse has 32s on his XS but he may have special build barrels, maybe even fixed choke, I'm not sure. As Hamster says 32s have more advantages than disadvantages and just work better for most shots. "Fashion" really doesn't feature much among the serious competitors looking for every bit of help they can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Hmm I have a front heavy 30" 525 and a perfectly balanced 32" 3800 Can't shoot sporting for toffee with the 3800.... But it is a trapper flat rib fixed chokes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Westward - you seem to be advocating maintained lead for rising targets, using the non master eye - a sure recipe for a miss. It has it's place - crossers and incomers, but has it's limitations. I would be interested to hear of a top flight shooter who uses maintained lead only. George Digweed uses just about every method in the book, but what would he know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Westward I agree with Gordon but I would say Richard Faulds is a better man to ask he is technically very good as well as killing lots of targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Westward - you seem to be advocating maintained lead for rising targets, using the non master eye - a sure recipe for a miss. I'm advocating nothing of the sort Gordon. Vertical and steep teal and driven targets can only be shot consistently by using both eyes. One eyed shooters have to estimate lead based on gun speed, actual target speed and the power of prayer. I also do not advocate maintained for every type of shot and said so above. As far as I know no one else does either, but I repeat that IMO, it is the most reliable method for targets with significant lead, be they driven, steep fast teal, overheads, deep quartering, long rabbits or crossers. As for GD, what does and what he says he does can be different things. For instance he has vids out there explaining that he uses swing through on crossers yet I can assure you that on Saturday at the Classic he shot the crosser on red course stand 3 with maintained. I know this because I was standing 3 feet away from him and watching very closely. FWIW he also shot the driven with maintained lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Westward - as for basing part of your argument on one stand that George Digweed shot - words fail me. I am sure he varies his method depending on individual clays. Your own reasoning (as I said earlier) suggests he uses many techniques. I think I prefer George Digweed's view on how he shoots, not a spectator second guessing what was in his mind. We will have to disagree as I don't accept what you say - full stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Hi all just looking for some advice, I use a beretta silver pigeon game gun with 30" barrels and most of the time I shoot fine with. When I usually miss with clay shooting is that I'm slightly behind. I had a go on someone eles gun today that had 32" barrels and seemed abit heavier but this seemed to help my swing and I was dusting clays on a stand I usually struggle with with ease. Now I wanna try and see if making my gun heavier improves my score (it may be all in my head). What would be people recommend to do to make the gun slightly heavier to improve swing. Thanks all Changing your gun because you are missing clays behind is a little bit of an overreaction don't you think? "It's not the gun, it's you" was drilled into me at the beginning and it's always stood true. When someone else can take my gun with its quarter chokes and 21g cartridges and break the clay I can't get it's definitely me not the gun, and that's true up to 80 yards so far. I note your point about heavier barrels. I know a AA shot locally who wanted to get from 93 to 95+ average so he went to Perazzi and got an expensive new gun. It hasn't helped because the problem was him, not the gun. I was told this by an even better shot, it's not just my opinion. Anyway, "new gun phenomenon" is when you get your hands on a new gun and shoot amazingly well with it, partly because you have no expectations of yourself. You may have been experiencing that. So whilst I think if you want a new gun and can afford a new gun there's no reason you shouldn't have a new gun - heck, I'd quite like one myself! - what you probably really need is a lesson from a really good coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo9t9 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't wanna change my gun as I really like it but I don't think there is no harm in changing little bits of it's like weight etc to see if it makes a difference nothing ventured nothing gained and all that. Had a lesson at holland and holland once and the improvement was amazing so will be booking some lessons soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 As has been suggested - try attaching weights - in a temporary fashion - so that once you think you have sorted out the weight distribution, you can consider something more permanent. Guerini or Blaser, for example, have weights for the barrel and stock weights which move up and down the stock. Tinkering with barrel weights is little different to adjusting a moveable comb mechanism. If it works for you - do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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