pestcontrol1 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 no-one sells products to loose money on them, thats bad business. as an RFD try going to your bank manager then saying "i`m going to make no profit at all" there is infact a premium on shotsizes 7 - 6.5 + (6,5,4,3,2,1 etc). this is what proper George makes without the premium add on. he produces a value cartridge that has some performance without the premium tags of being "premium game loads.". it probbly is cheaper for him still to reload 1oz only and just do #6. because in the shell industry its volume is king. infact, volume is so much king that manufacturing a cartridge with limiting demand, actually cost in time, because the loader could be just loading some higer profit / more demand product. regardless of most things shotsize variation is what loaders can do, george has obvously picked up on the premium loads and gone for those that cross over the pigeon / game load. we in the uk have been ripped off for years.how can a 7.5 shotsize cost less than a #6 when they all cost the same per ton. they even try to brainwash us into thinking its more economic for 27grams, 29 grams, 31grams etc when that is nothing, that is no different. its not like its any advantage? saves a kilo every 1000 shells? if i`m buying lead at 3.50 / kg, then the big boys must be buying it at £1.50/kg at least, all that to save 1.50 per 1000 shells? its not even worth thinking about, the other thing is, how can it be cheaper to buy shells imported from italy? transporting shells is expensive. thats got to whack profits. let alone distribution networks. didnt a shop recently bring in NSI 1oz #5s for exclusive pigeon shooters?? for like £150/k? given the availability and price, is it still advisable to use 7.5s on game? i gots to admit, if i was to p off the big factorys, the first thing i`d load a 1oz fibre in #6, that should take care of a good 150% of everyday sporting, phes, rabbit, partridge, magpies and whatever. I think i would also be looking at 1oz #5- #6 and also a 24g in #5 good light game pigeon load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 How can you be so certain that those cartridges are far superior to the 'other ones', after only trying one box? very easily, 25 carts is a lot of carts, after 25 shots and non flying off when hit and then swapping to the eley carts and hitting birds and them flying on I,m sure it was pretty easy to see for my own eyes what carts worked best for me, I have been out this morning also and gone through three boxes of what George dropped off and must totally be honest they are definitely a better cart than the hull superfast and also the eley pigeon , they are punchier also through my sxs, so I have now used just over 100 of the carts and the other two do not come close atb Evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Evo which one have you used from George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 the superfast 5.5,s 32gram there hitting power is unreal, everything I hit drops like a stone, ok the hull superfast are 29gram no 6,s but with the carts off George they certainly don't fly on, I,m out again later to try the 32g no 4 1/2,s trying them out on the crows so I,ll see what they are up too and report later, atb Evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 We all have our favourite cartridges for our own reasons, conversely others might find the same cartridge not so appealing ... if someone says they think a certain cartridge is gpod, as far as lm concerned, thats it .. good luck to'em me thinks! Im thinking of enquiring over 500x30g No6's "fibre" .. but l think George, possibly, has been taken hostage! ... as of yet, all attempt to make contact has failed .. lm pinned to BBC 24 hour/CNN/NBC/Al Jazeera .. lm busy making yellow ribbons !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 peter have you got the right number mate , its on one of the threads somewhere, out after the crows later mate with his 4.5,s 32g so should be fun atb Evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Ive text him twice, that was over a week ago .. nothin.lol l have to admit Bob .. lm not making yellow ribbons, lm watching the boxing lol Going out shortly to pick a couple of things up, and pop into the chemist to get some insect repellant .. might try and get out tomorrow for a few hours, though not alot about on the farm :( ... Crows have done one ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 the superfast 5.5,s 32gram there hitting power is unreal, everything I hit drops like a stone, ok the hull superfast are 29gram no 6,s but with the carts off George they certainly don't fly on, I,m out again later to try the 32g no 4 1/2,s trying them out on the crows so I,ll see what they are up too and report later, atb Evo I am looking at going over as soon as i have half a day looking forward to meeting them. and fetching some back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 We all have our favourite cartridges for our own reasons, conversely others might find the same cartridge not so appealing ... if someone says they think a certain cartridge is gpod, as far as lm concerned, thats it .. good luck to'em me thinks! Im thinking of enquiring over 500x30g No6's "fibre" .. but l think George, possibly, has been taken hostage! ... as of yet, all attempt to make contact has failed .. lm pinned to BBC 24 hour/CNN/NBC/Al Jazeera .. lm busy making yellow ribbons !! spoke to him the other day did ring and they got no answer but they rang me back within 10 min Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Ive text him twice, that was over a week ago .. nothin.lol l have to admit Bob .. lm not making yellow ribbons, lm watching the boxing lol Going out shortly to pick a couple of things up, and pop into the chemist to get some insect repellant .. might try and get out tomorrow for a few hours, though not alot about on the farm :( ... Crows have done one ! he defo has not received your txts mate ,he spoke to me about it,,check you have the right number mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Thats the number lve used mate ... atb Edited July 26, 2014 by hoggysreels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Thats the number he posted on a thread ... the one he elected to post ... !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 no-one sells products to loose money on them, thats bad business. as an RFD try going to your bank manager then saying "i`m going to make no profit at all" there is infact a premium on shotsizes 7 - 6.5 + (6,5,4,3,2,1 etc). this is what proper George makes without the premium add on. he produces a value cartridge that has some performance without the premium tags of being "premium game loads.". it probbly is cheaper for him still to reload 1oz only and just do #6. because in the shell industry its volume is king. infact, volume is so much king that manufacturing a cartridge with limiting demand, actually cost in time, because the loader could be just loading some higer profit / more demand product. regardless of most things shotsize variation is what loaders can do, george has obvously picked up on the premium loads and gone for those that cross over the pigeon / game load. we in the uk have been ripped off for years.how can a 7.5 shotsize cost less than a #6 when they all cost the same per ton. they even try to brainwash us into thinking its more economic for 27grams, 29 grams, 31grams etc when that is nothing, that is no different. its not like its any advantage? saves a kilo every 1000 shells? if i`m buying lead at 3.50 / kg, then the big boys must be buying it at £1.50/kg at least, all that to save 1.50 per 1000 shells? its not even worth thinking about, the other thing is, how can it be cheaper to buy shells imported from italy? transporting shells is expensive. thats got to whack profits. let alone distribution networks. didnt a shop recently bring in NSI 1oz #5s for exclusive pigeon shooters?? for like £150/k? given the availability and price, is it still advisable to use 7.5s on game? i gots to admit, if i was to p off the big factorys, the first thing i`d load a 1oz fibre in #6, that should take care of a good 150% of everyday sporting, phes, rabbit, partridge, magpies and whatever. I agree cookoof but I am fast concluding it is not the retailer/shop that is ripping us off. The manufacture is having a far larger slice of the cake which I guess they may say reflects their investment in machinery, building, staff costs, business rates, electricity, product liabilty insurance and CIP and HSE etc which must be much greater than the retailer/shop/RFD. Transporting powder into this country is far more expensive than transporting cartridges but you get more cartridges from tyour powder per load than you do cartridges so it must still pay to maufacture in the UK or we would have no home producers. Bottom line one must conclude it is a very competitve market but are the good times over for the industry? will we the shooter see small local gun shops close down or diversify more and more and then where will be for items that by law must be sold face-to-face by an RFD? I agree re the marketing rubbish 29gm, 31gm etc All credit for propercartridges coming on to the forum and replying to the posts prehaps the forum should invite other manufacture to join in. Life goes on I hope (unless you are a pigeon near my hide ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I agree cookoof but I am fast concluding it is not the retailer/shop that is ripping us off. The manufacture is having a far larger slice of the cake which I guess they may say reflects their investment in machinery, building, staff costs, business rates, electricity, product liabilty insurance and CIP and HSE etc which must be much greater than the retailer/shop/RFD. Transporting powder into this country is far more expensive than transporting cartridges but you get more cartridges from tyour powder per load than you do cartridges so it must still pay to maufacture in the UK or we would have no home producers. Bottom line one must conclude it is a very competitve market but are the good times over for the industry? will we the shooter see small local gun shops close down or diversify more and more and then where will be for items that by law must be sold face-to-face by an RFD? I agree re the marketing rubbish 29gm, 31gm etc All credit for propercartridges coming on to the forum and replying to the posts prehaps the forum should invite other manufacture to join in. Life goes on I hope (unless you are a pigeon near my hide ). and take a flogging like eley did? they aint going to do that... manufacturers do not want to engage the customers.... i couldnt care less if anyone person endorses whatever brand. credit to george. i`d like hull to make an appearence, i`ve liked there products. but most manufacturers are real funny who they deal with. my local couldnt get H,GB,E to even supply him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) It almost feels like a cartel, the country seems divvied up over a coffee and brandy meet up of the main players. Look gents, why cut each other up when we could just control who sells what where and since it's simply not economical for shooters to travel more than 10 miles we can keep the prices at say £165 for budget clay loads, £220 for ones with gold embossed cases and up to £260 for ones with felt wad and big shot in them. If you think about it any given area has one or three main suppliers that results in the shooters in that area having to shoot those loads, we simply don't seem to have availability of all brands together which would stimulate competition. Edited July 26, 2014 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Yep less choice in the gun shops in my area and others I pop into when travelling about. You are lucky to see more than one or two manufactures cartridges now yet a few years ago it was a lot different. Again I guess due to today's prices and the cost of keeping stock. They buy's from just one (or two) in a large a quntity as possible to get the lowest price and may be free delivery. Hence the success of the online suppliers with nearly every brand on offer. So yes I like your thinking a cartel is quite possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I am amazed at the lack of profit the shops make out of cartridges. In standard retail, the markup is normally double plus VAT ( Product bought for £100 and sold for £240 ) Erm its not on a lot of things! 30% is good not 100%! IT gear and consumer electronics is far lower, even specialist stuff is 50%max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 its easy people send me a email with your request this will be helpful to me to save any backwards and forwards call this a check list number 1 case length 67 or 70 mm wad plastic or fibre shot size in either mm or uk size what you are shooting and quantity thanks George will catch up better sunday now tired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Save me trawling through zillions of posts .. what the email address George ... atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 It almost feels like a cartel, the country seems divvied up over a coffee and brandy meet up of the main players. Look gents, why cut each other up when we could just control who sells what where and since it's simply not economical for shooters to travel more than 10 miles we can keep the prices at say £165 for budget clay loads, £220 for ones with gold embossed cases and up to £260 for ones with felt wad and big shot in them. If you think about it any given area has one or three main suppliers that results in the shooters in that area having to shoot those loads, we simply don't seem to have availability of all brands together which would stimulate competition. I've had serious issues with both cartridge manufacturers and sole UK distributors for various products who have refused to supply. I seriously doubt that there is any form of cartel in operation, but my own findings have proved conclusively that restrictive trade practices and anti competitive actions are rife within many of the companies who distribute top brands within the UK to the gun trade. Despite the initial handicap we are preparing to expand the shop. There are credible alternative brands for most items, I consider it a challenge that I now generally win more times than I lose thanks to customers with open minds. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I've had serious issues with both cartridge manufacturers and sole UK distributors for various products who have refused to supply. I seriously doubt that there is any form of cartel in operation, but my own findings have proved conclusively that restrictive trade practices and anti competitive actions are rife within many of the companies who distribute top brands within the UK to the gun trade. Despite the initial handicap we are preparing to expand the shop. There are credible alternative brands for most items, I consider it a challenge that I now generally win more times than I lose thanks to customers with open minds. webber I am sure Hitclays on the forum took some of the major manufactures to court for either refusing to supply him or setting the price he could retail them at . Either way I IIRC he won his case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 honest chaps will catch up tomorrow now tired but will close by saying there are carts on the market in 28 gram for about 150 to 160 theres plenty in that area of price why in the creation of common sense should you pay 240 for a 25 gram thanks george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 old Chinese proverb a fool and his money is easily separated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 'Are soon parted' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 mr browning on post 50 I see a trade list on the 32 gram pigeon he is 169 def tell him to ring me and forget about the pigeon label my 32 will kill pheasant patrige any thing that's why I don't put any thing on the box have them in 5 and 6 well lets see if all this work amounts to anything thanks george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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