Cranfield Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 My PC finally gave up the ghost during Saturday and passed on to that great junk yard in the sky on Sunday. I have been struggling with my very cheap (and useless) tablet since then, therefore very little Internet access this week. The new PC came today. My PC was about 11 years old, running XP with quite a few irritating habits, but it worked mostly OK. During the storms a couple of weeks ago, we lost and regained power up to about a dozen times, some very short duration, barely minutes. From then on the problems seemed to get worse. My question is, do repeated power cuts harm PCs ? If so, how can we peotect them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 The drive stylus can freeze on creating dead spots, plus, if you're not protected you'll get spikes when the power comes back on. Iddly widdly electronics don't like spikes, it makes them very unhappy. My advice is to plug your sensitive kit into a usp, they're only around £75 for one that will run a computer and monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNS Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Happened to me a few years back. Got an 'uninterruptible power supply' thing from PC world. Was about £60 I think. It's basically a battery backed big plug socket with some software you install. You plug the PC into it and then that into the normal plug socket. When there is a power cut, beyond a number of seconds, the software saves all open files / work and shuts down the PC. Whilst the battery back up keeps enough juice flowing to work until it switches off. It also does surge protection etc. Worked brilliantly for me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I bought a UPS from Ebuyer (for home CCTV) that runs off a PC. You can get something for home from £50 upwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest topshot_2k Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Just use a decent surge protector. Better PSU's in computers seems to cope better with power outages and surges. The actual powering off rather than properly shutting down the computer isnt going to kill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I will definitely look into getting a UPS, or something similar. Short power cuts are common enough here to possibly be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Get a cheap UPS but replace regularly, if suffering frequently let elec board know. http://www.comms-express.com/products/tripp-lite-avrx550u/ Thats about the smallest. If you can, put one on your router or buy a slightly beefier one to run PC and router, as router power offs can drop the broadband speed due to power outages. The server at the exchange will lower the speed to try to stabilise the connection. Once ups fitted ask ISP to regrade the line. Edited July 31, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Surge protector is all you really need and a bit of maintenance. Not a fan of the newer Windows versions. Big fan of xp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Surge protector is all you really need and a bit of maintenance. Not a fan of the newer Windows versions. Big fan of xp. Sorry but that's really not very good advice, the OP really needs a UPS, a surge protector may protect PCs from abnormal voltages but it will NOT protect you from sudden loss of power. Losing power without warning can and will cause data corruption because of something called write back caching (data isn't immediately written to the disk, it's cached in memory and written during periods of inactivity, it's an IO performance optimisation), you may be lucky and the corruption may not cause a problem, other times it will be and may prevent your PC from rebooting or worse. Admittedly that's not normally terminal but unless you're experienced in recovering data, rebuilding the registry, reinstalling windows or a sadomasochist then you really should get one. I've been working in the industry for a very long time and I've seen this happen and repaired the damage more times than I care to remember. Cranfield, do yourself a huge favour and buy an APC Smart UPS, they aren't expensive and they're worth every penny. You can even pick up a reconditioned (new battery) one from eBay for next to nothing. The battery will need changing every so often but it's infrequent enough for it not to be an issue (home use 1-2 years etc). Oh and it's quite cool to see your PC stay on after you've pulled the plug on the mains Edited July 31, 2014 by MartynGT4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Martyn gt4, whilst I appreciate that a ups is very useful and protects the system the reality is in the last 20 years I have never had to rebuild the registry or fix any serious problem due to a power cut. I have had issues with a power surge and unclean supplies hence the surge protector abd a ups would not have protected me any further. Regular saving of work (always recommended even today) and (heaven forbid) a weekley backup will prevent 99.99999% of issues. As all of this can be automated, it take precisely 0 seconds to accomplish once set. Why spend more money than needed? I'm not having a dig but common sense says most people don't have mission critical data on their system and if they don't they don't ask those questions on forums as they pay for guys and girls to protect it and don't care how it's done, just that it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Surge protector will only protect against over voltage condition not brown outs http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/surge-protector.htm The risk to the hardware during a power outage is a disk clatter when power is lost the heads can contact the platter and cause damage and b cooling failure as fans stop, although heat generation stops with no power the build up of heat can cause damage. Modern PSUs deal with surge much better than older designs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djgeoff Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) hi cranfield yeh a lot of unexpected shut down can damage your pc, normally affecting the hard drive. as already stated you could buy a ups ( uninterruptible power supply) if you get a lot of supply issues. shame your don't live near me i fix pc s in spare time and i have some cracking pc ready to go. as a matter of fact got one going out today, people bring pc to me for repair, don't want to pay the money for the parts so they go buy new, they let me keep old one. so i gamble , refurb them then knock them out to cover my outlay with a small bit added on for my time. silly really i should charge the going rate but i do it to help out and not for the cash plus i like the challenge of fault finding. def get anti surge power lead if you cant afford ups , belkin do good ones (bit expensive) but i believe they insure your gear if thier device fails, best check on that before you buy one Edited August 1, 2014 by djgeoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Martyn gt4, whilst I appreciate that a ups is very useful and protects the system the reality is in the last 20 years I have never had to rebuild the registry or fix any serious problem due to a power cut. I have had issues with a power surge and unclean supplies hence the surge protector abd a ups would not have protected me any further. Regular saving of work (always recommended even today) and (heaven forbid) a weekley backup will prevent 99.99999% of issues. As all of this can be automated, it take precisely 0 seconds to accomplish once set. Why spend more money than needed? I'm not having a dig but common sense says most people don't have mission critical data on their system and if they don't they don't ask those questions on forums as they pay for guys and girls to protect it and don't care how it's done, just that it is. You might not have had many problems and I'm sure that's true of a lot of people but do you live in an area that's subject to lots of power cuts? If you have a clean and reliable power supply (or an unstable supply and a surge protector) then no you probably won't need a UPS but if you get a lot of power cuts then a UPS would be a very worthwhile investment. I'm also not having a dig but your suggestion that the OP doesn't need an UPS because you don't need one doesn't seem to be particularly good application of common sense to me. Edited August 1, 2014 by MartynGT4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Modern PSUs deal with surge much better than older designs True if you've got a decent one fitted, sadly its one of the components PC manufacturers tend to skimp on yet is a component that can have a dramatic affect on the stability of your PC. I always recommend spending a bit more on the PSU and getting something 80%+ efficiency rated (i.e. http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/power-supply-units) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Besides the lecy going off ive had lightning hit the telephone lines quite some distance away and fried modems filters and psus. So always use a surge protector type plug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Short answer (well a question) is how much do you value what's on your PC's hard disk?, irreplaceable family photo's & videos? essential documents? etc. etc. While the chances of power outages are slim for most people it can only take one to damage your files. Most can usually be recovered by someone who knows what they're doing and of course you should be keeping at least 2 copies of anything valuable on fixed media like a good DVDs (Verbatim etc.) or a high capacity memory stick (32-128Gb) or even a portable hard drive (which being mechanical can also fail). A decent UPS will usually protect you from most power outages (by closing down your PC) and filter out high spikes, over-voltages and low "brown outs". APC and Belkin are good quality, make sure you get at least a 500W capacity and that your PC and monitor are plugged into the battery back-up side not just the filtered side!. Also make sure you install the software to control it via USB so it can shut the PC down properly. Edited August 1, 2014 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpoonlouis Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 If you were having power supply problems before it finally died I would suspect that the power supply in you tower unit was dying. Too many cheap or under rated power supply units around, always worth checking that you new tower has a respectable power unit in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 APC and Belkin are good quality, make sure you get at least a 500W capacity and that your PC and monitor are plugged into the battery back-up side not just the filtered side!. Also make sure you install the software to control it via USB so it can shut the PC down properly. Why connect the monitor to the UPS? In the UK we are lucky we have a very well maintained grid and very good supplies on the whole you get the odd outage and issue but compared to a lot of the world its brilliant! Surge protectors are ok but not really necessary if you are getting overvoltage then tell the supplier and they will lower it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Why connect the monitor to the UPS? In the UK we are lucky we have a very well maintained grid and very good supplies on the whole you get the odd outage and issue but compared to a lot of the world its brilliant! Surge protectors are ok but not really necessary if you are getting overvoltage then tell the supplier and they will lower it. Oh yeah? We have, on average, two power cuts a month. It depends where you live, if you live in or near a town then it's all good. If you live rurally, as I do, then pretty much your in the third world when it comes to broadband, utilities or a reliable, uninterrupted power supply. That's part of the reason we have a cooker that runs on electric and gas bottles, a portable generator in the garage, oil fired heating, and log burners in every room. Put all your eggs in one basket in the boonies and you'll at some point be royally screwed (usually on the coldest night of the year, in thick snow and at midnight on Saturday). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 I always have the monitor connected so I can see exactly what's going on, while I can rely on the UPS's we have to shut down our PCs safely there are certain programs that don't like to be forced to close while they are running. I also have mine configured to do a quick incremental backup of my important files to a 64Gb memory stick if a power outage of more than a few seconds takes place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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