SCOTLAND

[aris]

[four-wheel-drive]

 

Nah, North Korea:

I do like that made me smile for once over this mess.

[four-wheel-drive]

That was even better that the one above had me falling off my seat as I played it :good: :good:

[four-wheel-drive]

The one good thing that may come out of this is more and more people are coming around to the idea that we English also should have our own government even if it does cost us extra I for one have no problem with that.

[byjovecarruthers]

The one good thing that may come out of this is more and more people are coming around to the idea that we English also should have our own government even if it does cost us extra I for one have no problem with that.

That's just what we need, more politicians!

[grrclark]

The one good thing that may come out of this is more and more people are coming around to the idea that we English also should have our own government even if it does cost us extra I for one have no problem with that.

 

On Politics Today with Andrew Neil there was a good discussion on that. Was a conservative minister whose name escapes me just now advocating that devolution has to be fair and equal, i.e. all the home nations should have the same devolved powers as each other and I would applaud that.

 

Interesting though that they referenced polls from England that suggest at most only 40% of people support the notion of an English parliament, however those are historical polls, the Scottish referendum has maybe awakened passions throughout England.

 

I for one would very much like to see that.

[pimpkiller]

Its just like the first past post vote thing we had. I totally guarantee it will be a major no vote people arnt as stupid as the politicians/media make out but unfortunately no matter what the English will get their pockets pinched one way or another.

[MartynGT4]

Its just like the first past post vote thing we had. I totally guarantee it will be a major no vote people arnt as stupid as the politicians/media make out but unfortunately no matter what the English will get their pockets pinched one way or another.

 

I agree, regardless of which way it goes, we'll end up worse off. Bloody typical..

[ben0850]

Just got back from Kelso Tup Sales (expensive day out).

All the majority of the scots lads seem to be in the NO camp given the likely impact a yes vote would have on Eu / CAP

[RossEM]

I hope Scotland avoids the EU like the plague if they do vote for independence. The more devolved we are, the more democratic we are, the more accountable politicians are, the better value for money we get for tax paid. England should have had a devolved parliament at the point Scotland & Wales did, and all should have been given complete control over their their own finances by the creation of separate treasuries, regulated by a central body with regional representation. Constitutional change is so long overdue in this country, I suppose it's a shame that it has only become tangible via the threat of Scottish independence - maybe there will be some real re-engagement in politics if the remainder of the UK has the chance to become truly democratic.

The reason I admire Salmond and the SNP is that they are adamant in their right to break away from English government - in the same way that many of us feel adamant that leaving the EU would be in the UK's best interest. Democracy is diluted by distance - successive governments have been London-centric to the detriment of all other regions, just as the EU has damaged the constitutional, financial and cultural identity of the UK as a whole. We need devolved, decentralised government. The intricacies of local issues should not be the remit of Westminster, let alone Brussels.

[Reece]

Breaking news - Alex Salmond has announced his defence plans for an independent Scotland.

 

[RossEM]

 

If they try to peg to the pound they will have to retain a _massive_ contingency fund in order to be able to borrow any money.

 

There will have to be massive austerity measures to create this -> economy goes down the tubes.

 

You obviously haven't looked into this enough, it's easy to offer your opinion if you won't have to live with (most) of the consequences.

 

Nial

 

With respect Nial, I have been following the debate with a high degree of interest and associated research. I don't claim to have all the answers, but if you think that those who vote Yes are troubled by impending financial instability then you are mistaken. Those in favour of independence see the potential damage to their fledgling economy as a price more than worth paying. In all likelihood every citizen in the UK would have to live with the consequences. The difference is that Scotland will be left with literally billions of barrels of contingency funding, in the most trade-able substance on earth - oil.

[RossEM]

 

 

But it is a myth to suggest that by removing 50 labour MP's the Conservatives will be permanently in power. Since the end of the second world war only 3 elections have needed the Scottish MP's to help provide a majority.

 

The only change would be the size of labours majority.

 

To then lead on from this that there will be a permanent Conservative government with a potential withdrawal from the EU is not correct, because the facts don't bear this out.

 

It's just someone's view I quoted - maybe their facts aren't straight. I believe though that Scotland becoming independent would lead to the remainder of the UK voting to leave the EU (if we are offered a referendum as promised, of course.) It's more than evident that the populace is weary of distant politicians cowering to industry & business rather than fulfilling the needs of their supposed constituents, and the vitriol will eventually boil over, however misdirected, in the form of an exit from the EU.

[aris]

The arguments for Scotland to stay in the UK are pretty much the same as the ones for the UK to stay in the EU. Food for thought.

 

I don't think the UK will be offered devo-max from the EU though.

[islandgun]

Just got back from Kelso Tup Sales (expensive day out).

All the majority of the scots lads seem to be in the NO camp given the likely impact a yes vote would have on Eu / CAP

seems farming/country folk are no, city vote ?

[four-wheel-drive]

 

On Politics Today with Andrew Neil there was a good discussion on that. Was a conservative minister whose name escapes me just now advocating that devolution has to be fair and equal, i.e. all the home nations should have the same devolved powers as each other and I would applaud that.

 

Interesting though that they referenced polls from England that suggest at most only 40% of people support the notion of an English parliament, however those are historical polls, the Scottish referendum has maybe awakened passions throughout England.

 

I for one would very much like to see that.

I did see some of that program the thing is it is ok for the Scots and the Welsh to spend hundreds of Millions of pounds building new parliament buildings yet if it was suggested that we build a new one as lets face it the one that we have is falling down and there is not enough office space for all of the MPs if you ever watch it on TV and see the time waisted voting instead of just pressing a button they have to all tramp off to different rooms what a joke that is but what would people say you cannot wast our money on that I just dispair at people in this country.

[grrclark]

I did see some of that program the thing is it is ok for the Scots and the Welsh to spend hundreds of Millions of pounds building new parliament buildings yet if it was suggested that we build a new one as lets face it the one that we have is falling down and there is not enough office space for all of the MPs if you ever watch it on TV and see the time waisted voting instead of just pressing a button they have to all tramp off to different rooms what a joke that is but what would people say you cannot wast our money on that I just dispair at people in this country.

 

I thought that the points put forward were well intentioned, but maybe not well thought out. The answers put forward struck me as someone very much interested in looking after their own interests, making sure they keep a job, etc.

 

I would much rather see a substantially reduced central government, including a house of elected members. Not UK MP's who then sub in as English only MP's when it suits.

 

A different assembly building for a devolved English parliament with English only MP's sitting outside of London would also be a powerful message, although I do appreciate that building ivory towers costs money.

 

Selling of some prime government real estate in London would pay for it handsomely though.

[Fisherman Mike]

Salmond doesn't give a toss about the scots..he doesn't give a toss about the English, Welsh or Irish either, he just wants to preserve his place in Scottish History and alter the sovereign course of Scotland for the first time since 1770.

He wont be here to pick up the pieces, provide the employment, reduce the burgeoning interest rates, accommodate those who have their houses repossessed.

He's just on a bitter personal crusade spawned of watching too much of Braveheart, and Rob Roy and reading too much George Burns...oops sorry I meant Robbie Burns..

A recent statement from one of the worlds leading Financial Services providers and advisors even to the Bank of England and America.....

Global investment giant Deutsche Bank on Friday weighed in on the side of "No", saying that independence "would go down in history as a political and economic mistake" as large as those that caused the Great Depression.

 

Now when Financial Giants like that start making statements like that then you just have to sit up and take notice..

 

I dare say Salmond will counter that its political leverage by the British Government that has caused them to say this...

Edited September 13, 2014 by Fisherman Mike

[button]

Sure Salmonds responce will be its bluff and bluster- he should know hes an expert at that!

[poontang]

Salmond seems to think Camerons position as PM would be untenable if the vote is for independence...so I'm guessing he'll be taking early retirement if the people of Scotland vote to stay in the union?

 

Or is that a bit too much to ask?

[four-wheel-drive]

I did here someone on the radio saying about it a while ago that the old building could be put to lots of other uses charging people to look around weddings all sorts of functions to pay towards its upkeep. and a new purpus built building for the MPs to use would be much cheaper to run and with all of the time saved they could use the main chambers for say just four days a week to save on heating etc.

Edited September 13, 2014 by four-wheel-drive

[Mark L]

With respect Nial, I have been following the debate with a high degree of interest and associated research. I don't claim to have all the answers, but if you think that those who vote Yes are troubled by impending financial instability then you are mistaken. Those in favour of independence see the potential damage to their fledgling economy as a price more than worth paying. In all likelihood every citizen in the UK would have to live with the consequences. The difference is that Scotland will be left with literally billions of barrels of contingency funding, in the most trade-able substance on earth - oil.

You speak the most sense on here.

 

Roll on Friday I'm getting fed up with it now I have looked very hard into both sides and it's a massive yes for me for to many lies from Westminster and the bbc for me to even consider a no vote,

 

I will unfortunately be in Thame in Oxfordshire on the 18 th my wife will be voting for me .

 

When we get a yes we will succeed and be a wealthy country no doubt in my mind

[Fisherman Mike]

As any one ever wondered why, if there are billions of barrels of Oil the Scots have access to, we are still importing it at a premium from Russia and the Middle East. ?

 

Answer...because its not there that's why.

[Gordon R]

Mike - little point stating the obvious to anyone with a modicum of common-sense. Many don't want to hear facts.

 

If facts caution against a Yes", they just ignore them.

[Mark L]