grrclark Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Thanks for the full answer, i shall do a bit of reading and educate myself a bit. Does it represent a step change in the building industry like say timber frame construction did or is it more of an evolution? I could imagine that the design, planning and organisation is a fairly fundamental change. I could be well off base with this but it does seem as though it is almost ripe for pre-manufactured panels and more of a site assembly, maybe a bit like oil rig accommodation is built? About 15 years ago I was doing a bit of consultancy with an engineering firm who had the contract to manage the build of Cork County Councils new building, i was nothing to do with the build side, but was in a few planning meetings with the architects and engineers. That really sparked an interest as that build was all about clever design and super building efficiency. That's the reason behind my nosiness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Thanks for the full answer, i shall do a bit of reading and educate myself a bit. Does it represent a step change in the building industry like say timber frame construction did or is it more of an evolution? It's evolving all the time I would say. I could imagine that the design, planning and organisation is a fairly fundamental change. We paid for two draughtsmen to learn how to use the CAD system required to draw the panels. I could be well off base with this but it does seem as though it is almost ripe for pre-manufactured panels and more of a site assembly, That's exactly what Tradis is. It takes us about six weeks to build the panels for a four bedroomed house in the unit, and two to three days to erect it on site. The most recent non-passive took us two and a half days to erect, the passive took us one day. That's four of us plus boss and a contract lift consisting of the crane driver and banksman. although we are all qualified banksmen/slingers. The biggest building we built and erected was some years ago now in Tranent, which consisted of over 600 hundred fully insulated panels, each as long and as wide as an artic trailer bed and 400mm deep. It took us 6 months to make the panels and another 4 to erect them on site. maybe a bit like oil rig accommodation is built? About 15 years ago I was doing a bit of consultancy with an engineering firm who had the contract to manage the build of Cork County Councils new building, i was nothing to do with the build side, but was in a few planning meetings with the architects and engineers. That really sparked an interest as that build was all about clever design and super building efficiency. The most interesting and enjoyable one was the building we built and erected on the Isle of Man for the Manx parliament. Happy days. That's the reason behind my nosiness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I am interested in your comment that it is not viable. Is this from a cost perspective? I imagine PH is expensive to build. More expensive currently, residential about £1600m2 compared to £1500 for code 3. However as things develop and passivhaus technology becomes more universal the price will level out. More and more Housing Associations are considering passivhaus stock and developers too...it certainly is viable in my opinion and as the key supply chain become more familiar with its principles it will set the future standard for energy efficient buildings. PC's are simple analogy.. when I bought my first HP desktop it was over £800 now you get a ten times better model for just over £300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I told you I was coming from a position of ignorance Understand now, I assumed that it was all prepared on site, D'OH!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 What's the U value of the pasiv haus you build. My architect friend who done my calcs and drawings said if I went for thermal boards my house would generate heat from people living in the house and cooking,solar heat through glass that I'd have to deal with. Not worth the bother, but like wearing to many coats, you can get too warm. I did go for that heat reflective glass. Nothing to the spec of your triple glazed windows as the cost put me off. Think this form of building houses will become the norm sooner rather than later, nearly sixty percent of new builds in Scotland are now Eco timber framed. As you have said its a whole different ball game making them air tight and sealed. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 What's the U value of the pasiv haus you build. My architect friend who done my calcs and drawings said if I went for thermal boards my house would generate heat from people living in the house and cooking,solar heat through glass that I'd have to deal with. Not worth the bother, but like wearing to many coats, you can get too warm. I did go for that heat reflective glass. Nothing to the spec of your triple glazed windows as the cost put me off. Think this form of building houses will become the norm sooner rather than later, nearly sixty percent of new builds in Scotland are now Eco timber framed. As you have said its a whole different ball game making them air tight and sealed. Figgy Will have to get back to you with some figures. Regarding building in Scotland, and in particular East Lothian, it was for quite a few years our biggest employer. We have erected huge schools in both Tranent and Haddington, and have built school extensions in Gifford, Stoneyhill and Dunbar, plus other smaller projects. For whatever reason the work up there has dried up, but we are now building more bespoke dwellings for residential use. Even our non-passive Tradis buildings are built to high spec' and are sealed to the best of our ability but not to passive spec', nor using passive build materials. We have converted traditional builds into Tradis and are in fact doing one at the moment, which entails stick building the Tradis inside the existing building. It means using 150mm I-beams which of course means the interior measurements will reduce the size of the rooms by that amount on each face, plus cavity, but if the existing rooms are large enough it can be worth doing.The floor will be hung and built from 300mm fully insulated Tradis. It's a long time since I've dug footings by hand, and it's starting to tell. We have in the past even built a new roof within the existing one without taking the existing one off and will be doing the same with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chady Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yes all to do with cost. The savings you get against the cost. It will get there with better technology ect. But it's not ther yet. And the average person wouldn't or couldn't afford one against a normal standard house building Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Scully my tradis house isn't a passive one with heat recovery etc. just built to be sealed tight and well insulated as the costs for passive are never recovered over what I have now,we have enough comings and going to get more than enough air in and out via doors Think that's the problem for now untill the regs change. What you and others are doing is interesting. Great thread that will give people more of an idea of what can be achieved. You say work dried up in Scotland, they have a lot of companies up there doing this like Scot frame etc and more moving into it every year. The self build and trade home shows have loads of them wit stands. One Scandinavian company's builds looked fantastic but more than twice the cost of a UK build. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Scully my tradis house isn't a passive one with heat recovery etc. just built to be sealed tight and well insulated as the costs for passive are never recovered over what I have now,we have enough comings and going to get more than enough air in and out via doors Spoke to boss this morning who gave me some figures; the U value of a passive house built with 240mm Warmcel Tradis would be in the region of 0.08, and the same spec' for non-passive around 0.14. The passive we have just had tested consisted of walls of 300mm Warmcel Tradis (injected, not open blown) plus 50mm Gutek, plus all spaces between services battens insulated with another 50mm of whatever insulation they choose to use, and by the time the block wall is erected the walls will be 500mm thick, with at least 400 of that consisting of insulation, so the U value will be even less than that quoted above. Think that's the problem for now untill the regs change. What you and others are doing is interesting. Great thread that will give people more of an idea of what can be achieved. You say work dried up in Scotland, they have a lot of companies up there doing this like Scot frame etc and more moving into it every year. The self build and trade home shows have loads of them wit stands. One Scandinavian company's builds looked fantastic but more than twice the cost of a UK build. Yep, you're right. When I first joined them quite some years ago now we were the only company who built fully insulated Tradis houses, now there are quite a few, and as you say, they're not cheap. Chady is correct in saying the average person couldn't afford to build to such a high spec', and I'm one of those average people. To go seriously 'green' costs serious money. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) sorry to lower the tone but ............. Could we use politicians to insulate our houses as they are full of hot air edit...... Sheep wool is now very green and insulating. How about we stuff some Ewe-Kip in there Edited December 10, 2014 by malkiserow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 i would die in a passive house.........i like to sleep with the windows open....and when there is a hard frost the ice forms on my glass of water by the bed........i have a passive room in the house and that is the sitting room...which is always very warm and snug...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Sheep wool is now very green and insulating. You're right, it is. We buy bales of it from a company called 'Second Nature'. i would die in a passive house.........i like to sleep with the windows open.... You can open the windows in a passive house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chady Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Lol you spend all this money on air tightening and think great what an echievement. Then you open a window and think why o why. 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandspider Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 We have just started 24 passivhaus apartments in Bristol which is on an extremely challenging site and is going to be very interesting. I'd be interested to know where these are if you wouldn't mind? Brownfield or greenfield site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 until you have to delouse it, all the greenies seem to have stopped using it. . Sheep wool is now very green and insulating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 I'd be interested to know where these are if you wouldn't mind? Brownfield or greenfield site? Bedminster ...but don't tell anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.