LondonLuke Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 It's not as black and white. During the trial, Chef Evans claimed she asked him to **** her harder and do it "doggy style". One of the "witnesses" claimed she requested the same 2 weeks after. Saying "**** me harder" suggests consent. The "witnesses" appeared to be brought in to confirm that what Ched Evans claimed to be her behaviour during sex was accurate. Not how many partners she had. Thanks for this - what is the source for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) What does it matter if the girl has had sex ten times a night every night for the last six months? That means she can't be raped because she has enjoyed a lot of consensual sex previously? Same as rape in marriage - just because you have consented with your husband for the last five years doesn't mean he can't then rape you. Absolutely on the money Luke. Edited October 19, 2016 by Thunderbird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adge Cutler Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) If I go to the Bakers, I know it’s to get some bread, If I go to the Hairdressers, I know I will be getting my hair cut To the Chippy, I would expect fish and chips and to the florist flowers If I were an adult Woman all be it partially inebriated and I went to a hotel room with a man I would assume it was for sex. The girl was a Trollope of questionable virtue as were Evans and his friend. To some this might seem a bit simplistic but They all knew what was going to happen and it did. Just three perfect illustrations of the low morals in society today. The Girl thought she could make some money out of Evans but she failed....... that’s all. Are they all intelligent enough and have sufficient moral fabric to learn from it ?...I doubt it....its genetic. Edited October 19, 2016 by Adge Cutler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) My understanding is the evidence was accepted by the court regarding her history of giving consent and then claiming amnisia the day after. Not as has been claimed, that she had sex before or after the Evans event. The law is unworkable IMO. Can anyone see the drink driving law in the UK being written without a proscribed BA limit? What does the term "drunk" mean? I've been drunk probably 100's of times over my lifetime. I did some pretty stupid things as well. I even woke up next to some fairly odd women when I was younger. But 90% of the time I was never so blind drunk I didn't know what was going on. The other 10% I was either comatose or chucking up in a bush somewhere. If the young lady was unconscious at the time, then I'd agree she was too drunk to give consent. However she was having sex with one man at the time and consented to Evens joining in. AFAIA there is no law against consenting adults having group sex. Before anyone tries to claim otherwise, the court accepted that she was sober enough to give consent to Evans "mate" so it is bizarre in the extreme to believe that she suddenly became too drunk for legal consent for an encounter with Evans. Something isn't right and my instinct points to a money making opportunity. The case has been hijacked by those with vested interests. As an aside a young 20yo girl in my wife's employ cried rape a couple of years ago. We went through all the unpleasantness of telling her parents then informing the Police. It turned out she went back to a house full of eastern European men after a night out in Southampton and slept with all 8 of them. The story she concocted was to alleviate her embarrassment and to get her out of trouble with her then boyfriend. Nowadays her and her new man are in to S&M and going to Amsterdam to sleep with prostitutes in group sex or watching each other do it. Nothing surprises me about the younger generation these days...unfortunately. Edited October 19, 2016 by achosenman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 If I go to the Bakers, I know its to get some bread, If I go to the Hairdressers, I know I will be getting my hair cut To the Chippy, I would expect fish and chips and to the florist flowers If I were and adult Woman all be it partially inebriated and I went to a hotel room with a man I would assume it was for sex. The girl was a Trollope of questionable virtue as were Evans and his friend. To some this might seem a bit simplistic but They all knew what was going to happen and it did. Just three perfect illustrations of the low morals in society today. The Girl thought she could make some money out of Evans but she failed....... thats all. Are they all intelligent enough and have sufficient moral fabric to learn from it ?...I doubt it....its genetic. So she goes to hotel room with one man when drunk and therefore OK to be 'raped' by others. Do you have any proof she tried to obtain money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Thanks for this - what is the source for this? Google "ched evans **** me harder" without the * and take your pick. The sun, guarniad, mirror, Huffington post etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 The fact that she was texting her friend - all spelling correct - whilst allegedly being so drunk she didn't know what was going on. If I had been on the jury, that would have started alarm bells ringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Google "ched evans **** me harder" without the * and take your pick. The sun, guarniad, mirror, Huffington post etc. Thanks for that. I think the odd bit for me has nothing to do with anyone she slept with previously. But the fact she then slept with someone a few days later is slightly odd - I'm guessing here but wouldn't being raped/being left violated by sex put you off it for a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Thanks for that. I think the odd bit for me has nothing to do with anyone she slept with previously. But the fact she then slept with someone a few days later is slightly odd - I'm guessing here but wouldn't being raped/being left violated by sex put you off it for a bit? I'd have thought so. I think it's an odd one. Someone's past does not stop them from being raped. But if an accused person describes a preference of the alleged victim and a previous or subsequent partner of the victim can confirm that. Surely it's fair? No one's saying she has loose morals so couldn't have been raped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adge Cutler Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) So she goes to hotel room with one man when drunk and therefore OK to be 'raped' by others. Do you have any proof she tried to obtain money? Who may I ask were the others who raped her...do you know something everyone else doesn't.. Why do I need proof I'm not prosecuting anyone. ? Its obvious ( to me anyway) the complaint was a precursor to a personal injury or similar compensation claim. I would wager a penny to a pound if it was someone other than Evans we wouldn't have heard a squeak about this case. It would just have been another hedonistic triplet on a Saturday night. Edited October 19, 2016 by Adge Cutler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Who may I ask were the others who raped her...do you know something everyone else doesn't.. Why do I need proof I'm not prosecuting anyone. ? Its obvious ( to me anyway) the complaint was a precursor to a personal injury or similar compensation claim. I would wager a penny to a pound if it was someone other than Evans we wouldn't have heard a squeak about this case. It would just have been another hedonistic triplet on a Saturday night. I am simply identifying the flaw in you simplistic thinking. You said that if A woman goes to a hotel room with A man then she should expect to have sex with that man. That's not what the law says and regardless even if she agrees to have sex with the man she went with does she also have to agree to have sex with others who join later? I do not believe there is any evidence that she asked compensation. The reason this was on the front page was because he was a footballer not because she went after compensation. He was originally convicted a number of years ago and I have read nothing about her comp. claim since then. Do you not think that we would have heard by now if she had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think the fact that a man went to the Police, the day that Evans was convicted, saying that the conviction was unsound, might have slightly deterred a claim for compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 If I go to the Bakers, I know it’s to get some bread, If I go to the Hairdressers, I know I will be getting my hair cut To the Chippy, I would expect fish and chips and to the florist flowers If I were an adult Woman all be it partially inebriated and I went to a hotel room with a man I would assume it was for sex. The girl was a Trollope of questionable virtue as were Evans and his friend. To some this might seem a bit simplistic but They all knew what was going to happen and it did. Just three perfect illustrations of the low morals in society today. The Girl thought she could make some money out of Evans but she failed....... that’s all. Are they all intelligent enough and have sufficient moral fabric to learn from it ?...I doubt it....its genetic. What a factual post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I thought it was harsh, but probably accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 As far as I understand the whole prosecution was based on the presumption that the 'victim' claimed that she was inebriated and therefore could not in law have given consent whether she was openly gagging for it or not. The problem with that is proving one way or the other that at the time she was indeed drunk to the point that the law determines is 'drunk', i.e. incapable of making a decision. That is where the jury have to make the call based largely on circumstantial evidence and claims by either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I thought it was harsh, but probably accurate. A small part was, agree re morals the rest was pure supposition in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I'm not sure if many of you looked at the link I posted on the last page but there isn't really any such thing as being "found innocent". Generally, the jury is asked a very specific question and unless they can answer it positively, the person isn't found guilty. Not being found guilty is not the same as being found innocent, if such a thing existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adge Cutler Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think its a case of three of one and a quarter of a dozen of the other. We also seem to have overlooked the fact that samples from the alleged victim taken the following day showed no alcohol but traces of Cocaine and cannabis ? She also told the police in her statement that she was tipsy but not out of control. So was she comatose enough not to be able to consent or not. Although jurors are supposed to be completely impartial its interesting to note that 7 of them were female and given the sensitivity of the alleged offence I would have thought subconsciously at least they might have had just a little sympathy with the alleged victim as to require absolute zero doubt that Evans was not guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Adge - people post without thinking that someone might be reading. I sincerely hope they don't learn the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) The aspect of this case that nobody has commented on is that his girlfriend has stood by him throughout. I find that quite amazing, I'm sure no girlfriend of mine would have done. Its not as though she's just hanging on for the money either, shes richer than him and her father has paid for his appeal. http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/how-ched-evans-girlfriend-stood-12026828 Edited October 20, 2016 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 its not anymore complicated than this: a couple of blokes one happens to be an E list celebrity have sex with a woman, guess what women like / enjoy sex as well she later thinks she might make a few quid by saying this E list celebratory raped her, all the usual media Islington radio 5 liberals / punters who think some 30 year old bloke from god knows where is 16 and ships them into our country, jump all over him and hey presto the blokes a rapist. simple fact in the real world he has the morals of a rat but that doesn't make him a rapist, I hope some one is apologising to Judy Finnegan who called this right from day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 chrisjh - the problem with your statement is that Judy Finnegan thought he was a rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Are they all intelligent enough and have sufficient moral fabric to learn from it ?...I doubt it....its genetic. It's been reported that Evans's grandfather was a defence witness for James Hanratty, the A6 rapist and murderer, and swore that Hanratty was with him when the crimes were committed. DNA evidence has subsequently shown that Hanratty was guilty. and, of course. duly hanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adge Cutler Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 It's been reported that Evans's grandfather was a defence witness for James Hanratty, the A6 rapist and murderer, and swore that Hanratty was with him when the crimes were committed. DNA evidence has subsequently shown that Hanratty was guilty. and, of course. duly hanged. I rest my case ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) It's been reported that Evans's grandfather was a defence witness for James Hanratty, the A6 rapist and murderer, and swore that Hanratty was with him when the crimes were committed. DNA evidence has subsequently shown that Hanratty was guilty. and, of course. duly hanged. Hanratty lived very near here and is buried in Carpinders Park lawn cemetery a couple of miles up the road from me. A lot of people knew him, I used to work with a man who lived opposite him and went to school with him. Nobody locally believed he did it, they say he was a small time nobody, a petty crook who was a bit of a joke but not violent just low IQ. The DNA evidence killed off a book that was being written, but people point to the timing of the decision to exhume as being suspiciously convenient given the book. . We will never know, that the one thing that is certain in the Hanratty case Edited October 20, 2016 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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