wingnut Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I work as a self employed Health and safety trainer and spend most of my time travelling around the country delivering in house and accredited safety courses, I have (or did until recently) 3 major clients that I work for on a very regular basis. One of these companies were not always the best at paying on time, but eventually after phone calls, texts, e mails would eventually settle the account, then when off stop I would be asked to do some more work for them, that is until now. I tried to contact these people at the end of November as the account had once again gone past its agreed terms , no reply to phones, texts or e-mails, I thought they must be busy, I kept trying, but eventually after getting no where with them I contacted a debt recovery firm at the beginning of January as the amount outstanding was causing cash flow problems, and was absolutely Gob smacked to say the least that the company had been dissolved late November last year, they owe me a fair chunk of Money ( well- it seems that way to me ) going back to May last year for work that I have done for them. The amount outstanding is going to make a difference as to whether a small profit or huge loss will be achieved this year How do I stand now, they never once advertised themselves as a ltd company on any of their literature, or on any of the invoices that I sent to them,and they never informed me that the company was going to be dissolved. Extremely cheesed off to say the least Any sensible help / thoughts greatly appreciated on next steps Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I m sorry to hear that, I've been taken for money on jobs on a few occasions one by a so called friend!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) I feel your pain chap. Edited January 12, 2015 by ack-ack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad93 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Can't see you getting the money back to be honest mate. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 ouch! I hope you can get something back from them, bloody swines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Sorry to hear of your awful predicament, I suggest you seek professional guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Very sorry to hear that wingnut. A client of mine has just been similarly taken by the recent well-publicised closure of a major distribution firm, for a lot of money. You can't get money off them that they don't have. Worth taking advice but I wouldn't hold your breath, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Been there and got the shirt. You should get a letter from the liquidators if you show on the books as a creditor, once everything is sorted you may get some of your money but I am afraid to say this is unlikely as by the time the liquidators, banks and tax man have there bit there won't be anything left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longchalk Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Been there and got the shirt. You should get a letter from the liquidators if you show on the books as a creditor, once everything is sorted you may get some of your money but I am afraid to say this is unlikely as by the time the liquidators, banks and tax man have there bit there won't be anything left. Liquidators will pay banks, the tax man and their own fees first of all. If there is anything left over non-priority creditors will be lucky to get 10p in the pound, and it could take a couple of years. Sorry to say it, but you're statistically unlikely to get anything at all in my experience as a Credit Controller in the construction industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Have you actually checked companies house to see if they were a ltd company?,it seems strange there was nothing on their paperwork to indicate this,if they were not ltd then there is going to be a liability of an individual,and there may be a slim chance you could get a county court order against these individuals,and from there if you obtain the order send in the boys( I know a man who knows the boys). Slim chance but worth checking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Have you actually checked companies house to see if they were a ltd company?,it seems strange there was nothing on their paperwork to indicate this,if they were not ltd then there is going to be a liability of an individual,and there may be a slim chance you could get a county court order against these individuals,and from there if you obtain the order send in the boys( I know a man who knows the boys). Slim chance but worth checking. The commercial debt collection company checked the company name forme when I contacted them , and this was the 1st I knew they were a ltd Company, it seems there were 2 partners / directors of this company, one of whom has decided to carry on under a different name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 The commercial debt collection company checked the company name forme when I contacted them , and this was the 1st I knew they were a ltd Company, it seems there were 2 partners / directors of this company, one of whom has decided to carry on under a different name. No disrespect to the debt collection company,but you should check yourself,debt companies work on the odds of 1 in a 100 replying to their letters,it seems strange they had no ltd paperwork.if you want to PM their name I will look on companies house for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longchalk Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Thinking about this overnight (the curse of the insomniac!) there's something I'm curious about. If you have been working for them for a while, yet it came as a genuine surprise that they were a limited company, who did you think you were working for? … An individual, or a partnership? If you've just been unobservant, and it should have been clear they're an LTD or an LLP then you're still stuffed. But if there's nothing in their orders, or any emails, or any correspondence with you to say so, (especially at the time you agreed the order) you might consider taking legal advice as to whether you can sue them personally, outside of the business. They will still have a house, car, private assets etc. If the debt in question is important enough to you, ask a solicitor. It's quite quick, cheap and easy to apply for a court judgement at Money Claim Online , the UK Court Service website, anyone can do it. If you can get a judgement against an individual, you can 'send the boys in' as Welsh1 says, but you can also have their *** hauled into court to account for all their assets and private property, or you can apply to have their bank accounts frozen until you get paid. The last tactic can be very, very effective. Edited January 13, 2015 by Longchalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thinking about this overnight (the curse of the insomniac!) there's something I'm curious about. If you have been working for them for a while, yet it came as a genuine surprise that they were a limited company, who did you think you were working for? … An individual, or a partnership? If you've just been unobservant, and it should have been clear they're an LTD or an LLP then you're still stuffed. But if there's nothing in their orders, or any emails, or any correspondence with you to say so, (especially at the time you agreed the order) you might consider taking legal advice as to whether you can sue them personally, outside of the business. They will still have a house, car, private assets etc. If the debt in question is important enough to you, ask a solicitor. It's quite quick, cheap and easy to apply for a court judgement at Money Claim Online , the UK Court Service website, anyone can do it. If you can get a judgement against an individual, you can 'send the boys in' as Welsh1 says, but you can also have their *** hauled into court to account for all their assets and private property, or you can apply to have their bank accounts frozen until you get paid. The last tactic can be very, very effective. This reminds me of a situation I had where somebody was trading both as a sole trader and LTD co. He tried to hide behind a debt he owed me through the LTD co but the judge wasn't having any of it. With Welsh1's help it was a very simple process of making him pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longchalk Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 To be clear, I'm not saying they were not a company all along , just that if the paperwork doesn't prove your contract was with the legal entity they are now taking down, then surely it must be with someone else... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 If you have been working for them for a while, yet it came as a genuine surprise that they were a limited company, who did you think you were working for? … An individual, or a partnership? The company is a well known training provider for the larger construction and power generation industry companies in the Uk and Europe, At the 1st meeting with the person who owned the company I was lead to believe they were a sole trader, a few months later I was introduced ( by accident) to his business partner, still nothing mentioned about being A Ltd company. What I need to find out is how can a company be dissolved without anyone having responsibility for contacting any creditors, was it dissolved by mutual agreement by the partners--or were they made to do it. Both of these individuals have gone on to set up / carry on what they were doing prior to the dissolution and from what I understand still work together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Both of these individuals have gone on to set up / carry on what they were doing prior to the dissolution and from what I understand still work together Quelle Surprise! Happens all the time. I would bite the bullet so to speak and get on the phone to a commercial lawyer if I were you, otherwise this is gong to drive you crazy and take away your focus from looking for more business. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juby trap Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 sorry to say wingnut, but you best forget about it . dropped for this one a few times , have looked into it only to be told "no chance" it bites a bit when they start up again a fortnight later. as for working for so called fxxxxxx friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzenjammer Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 This is a useful little book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Straightforward-Guide-Company-Law-A/dp/1847161103 As has been said before it is unlikely you will get your money back. If you are going to take things forward then do it yourself and don't hire lawyers etc if you can avoid it as that may be just throwing good money after bad. Directors of Ltd companies have limited liability and if there is little or no money left then preferential debtors get first bit of anything. HMRC and other govt depts. I worked for the DTI on grants and we as a Department were way down the line as far as payouts were concerned. We invariably had to write off the debts after a certain time. I rather suspect you will have to do the same. However that said you should still lodge proof of debt with the relevant body whoever they are, official receiver (may be worth talking to your local office), liquidator etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I cannot comment on the legal side of this matter. Others have attempted to do so. What I would do is to realign your sights, look at the bigger picture, and set yourself up to earn money from other sources in the business you know something about. When that is up and running I would then have some placards made and I would go and stand outside the homes of the two individuals concerned and let them know how unhappy you are about the money and let their neighbours know just what sort of people they are living next to. You may never get the financial remuneration you want but there would be other pleasures to be gained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 After considering the various options suggested, I decided to try the other Business partner -- Well what a difference-- when I explained very calmly and politely what had been happening over the past few months they went very quiet, then went absolutely FLIPPING Mental. Apparently he had sworn to the other director that everything was settled, paid off and Hunky-dory, I was asked not do anything else but to leave it in there hands, that was 2 hours ago. well Knock me down and call me ginger (that's not racist- I am as any one who has met me will vouch for) I have just received an e-mail remittance from their bank and a text from the obnoxious one to say the outstanding monies will be in my account before the end of today. :yahoo: I am not going to hold my breath until then - but its looking good so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 After considering the various options suggested, I decided to try the other Business partner -- Well what a difference-- when I explained very calmly and politely what had been happening over the past few months they went very quiet, then went absolutely FLIPPING Mental. Apparently he had sworn to the other director that everything was settled, paid off and Hunky-dory, I was asked not do anything else but to leave it in there hands, that was 2 hours ago. well Knock me down and call me ginger (that's not racist- I am as any one who has met me will vouch for) I have just received an e-mail remittance from their bank and a text from the obnoxious one to say the outstanding monies will be in my account before the end of today. :yahoo: I am not going to hold my breath until then - but its looking good so far Well done you - nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longchalk Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 The nation awaits!.... Fingers crossed for you mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I do not have to hold my breath any longer, just checked the bank account (10th time today) AND ITS HERE Thank you everyone for your help and advice The last time I felt this good was when they told me that my Cancer treatment had finished and I was clear I am going to have such a headache in the morning NEVER GIVE UP- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 It's good to hear a success story like this. In the case I mentioned on an earlier post where I had help from Welsh1 I'd almost given up hope. On a sobering note I think you're in the minority here to be paid in full when a LTD company goes down. So, are you going to do any more work for them and if so I'm assuming COD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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