aris Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/11793249.WWI_rifle_found_during_work_at_St_James_Church_belltower_in_Bushey/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Lets hope it doesnt get destroyed and gets a new home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 The box the ammo looks modern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Reading between the lines, it looks like it will be deactivated and returned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Something isn't right with that pic'. On close up the rifle appears to have been chopped in half; the barrel certainly doesn't reappear from behind the other side of the ammo box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longspoon Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It may be the angle foreshortening the barrel but it looks a mite short to be a standard SMLE..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It may be the angle foreshortening the barrel but it looks a mite short to be a standard SMLE..... I know there were carbine versions of the Martini-Henry and Lee Metford for mounted divisions, but can't recall if there was a carbine version of the Smelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 The old man had a few stories that this has reminded me of; He grew up in Malvern, the young boys all had .22 shotguns (I guess it was a "fad" back then, like the little scooters now) but, as they were next to useless, they'd pull the cartridges apart and swap the shot for .22 air gun pellets that had to be rolled under a ruler until they fitted - so, not very accurate. Then a young lad started turning up with alsorts of interesting stuff; pistol ammunition, rifle ammunition etc - all military. Eventually a teacher caught him with it and it came out where he'd been getting it all from - under his dad's barn, hidden by a large steel sheet, was a "room" full of guns, grenades, rifles and anything else you'd love to find Apparently, when the army turned up to remove all their gear, it came out that the national guard had used the place as a base (sorry, can't remember if it was ww1 or 2) and it had somehow been forgotten certainly makes you wonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It could have been placed there by Churchills chosen people who planned of being a nuisance to the Nazis should the UK be invaded? I know they have a life expectancy of only 2 weeks which might explain the small amount of ammunition stored with the rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) It could have been placed there by Churchills chosen people who planned of being a nuisance to the Nazis should the UK be invaded? I know they have a life expectancy of only 2 weeks which might explain the small amount of ammunition stored with the rifle. Would that be because they were cordite Edited February 14, 2015 by la bala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Would that be because they were cordite No,i mean the short life expectancy of the people. Milsurp ammo can last for a long long time-provided its stored correctly. I've had in the past German 7.92x57 manufactured in 1945 which worked perfectly and 303 which was so old (made around 1900) they had rounded bullets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 No,i mean the short life expectancy of the people. Milsurp ammo can last for a long long time-provided its stored correctly. I've had in the past German 7.92x57 manufactured in 1945 which worked perfectly and 303 which was so old (made around 1900) they had rounded bullets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I think it's a SMLE No 1 Mk 111. introduced in about 1907 - looks as if it's got the No1/111 mag and the round bolt cocking rather than the 1915 serrated flat end. What a terrific find. It should be cleaned up and used. The Mk 5 was the short jungle carbine .303 but didn't come out until much later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I know there were carbine versions of the Martini-Henry and Lee Metford for mounted divisions, but can't recall if there was a carbine version of the Smelly. Yes, I believe there was a 'Jungle Carbine' variant of the SMLE. Which would firmly place it as a WW2 rifle though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 It would be very interesting to find out what date the cartridge headstamp shows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 It would be very interesting to find out what date the cartridge headstamp shows! The photo shows stripper clips which were introduced in 1904 but the cartridges look like .303 Mk7 (Spitzer point) which were introduced in about 1910. I don't recognise the packaging the ammunition is in. It looks like an issued box of 5 x 5 charger clips but I've never seen one like that. Most I've seen are in bandoliers or vertical cardboard boxes. This could well have been issued to the Home Guard for the second world war - Maybe it was a fire watch, observation or Observer corps post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Yes, I believe there was a 'Jungle Carbine' variant of the SMLE. Which would firmly place it as a WW2 rifle though I believe the Jungle carbine was a version of the No 4 Lee Enfield, and named the No 5, which as you point out, would place it post WW1. The gun in the pic is without doubt an earlier SMLE, which of course doesn't rule out its use by Home Guard in WW2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 No,i mean the short life expectancy of the people. Milsurp ammo can last for a long long time-provided its stored correctly. I've had in the past German 7.92x57 manufactured in 1945 which worked perfectly and 303 which was so old (made around 1900) they had rounded bullets! I believe they were also instructed to eliminate collaborators from the community after invasion. Everytime I drive to our shoot I pass dragon's teeth by the side of the road ...makes you think. I think however that the BRO units were better equipped than homeguard so would an early SMLE fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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