To ensure that Veterans are fast tracked for mental health care and se

[Steveg01]

If you could have a look at the following E-petition and sign if you agree

 

To ensure that Veterans are fast tracked for mental health care and services - e-petitions http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/75722

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[OddJob]

Not sure I agree with that. Mental health issues are hugely difficult for anyone who is going through them and for those people to be leapfrogged in their moment of need is not right. It is not to diminish what veterans have done in anyway, but others are going through as equally dark a time and need adequate help.

 

What the petition should be about is the improvement in capacity of mental health care in the UK as a whole meaning that fewer people, of whatever background, have to wait for care. The waiting times are abhorrent and need to be changed.

[welsh1]

Good luck,people such as combat stress have been pushing for this for many years,Veterans are also supposed to take priority for injuries received and needing treatment if they have been granted a war pension.

 

As some one who has had PTSD and has injuries that give me a pittance of a war pension i can tell you the NHS doesn't give a toss that you are a veteran.The treatment i was offered for PTSD was slow in coming and when i finally saw some one he was a hippy dressed head to toe in denim,had absolutely no perception of what military personnel go through and after the second session we agreed that we wouldn't continue.

Once you are in civvy street you are a civvy,you realise it very quickly when you try to get help.

[Twistedsanity]

I agree with odd job, everybody should get equal access to all health services without any fast tracking due to career choice

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Signed happily.

[welsh1]

Not sure I agree with that. Mental health issues are hugely difficult for anyone who is going through them and for those people to be leapfrogged in their moment of need is not right. It is not to diminish what veterans have done in anyway, but others are going through as equally dark a time and need adequate help.

 

What the petition should be about is the improvement in capacity of mental health care in the UK as a whole meaning that fewer people, of whatever background, have to wait for care. The waiting times are abhorrent and need to be changed.

 

 

I agree with odd job, everybody should get equal access to all health services without any fast tracking due to career choice

 

While you are right that there should be a greater capacity for all people with mental health issues,the military are in a category of their own, some of the things they see and do affect them very badly,I know most have the attitude that they signed up for it so they know what they were getting into, but nothing prepares you for what you see in theatre,there is a huge amount of military people leaving the forces and not realising they have PTSD it will surface months even years from now and unless treatment is readily available and quickly given a huge amount of people who have and can continue to contribute hugely to society will fall to the wayside.

 

The Military give all for this country, surely this country can give a little bit back to them.

[Bluebarrels]

Signed BB

[ben0850]

I agree that veterans need priority help...BUT....my slight issue is that I believe the MOD has a duty of care to those veterans to ensure they receive the level of support and treatment they need, whether still serving or in civvy street. All people with mental health problems need fast and effective treatment with a dedicated care pathway, in an ideal world I would reword the petition to kick the MOD into looking after the people it has so heavily relied upon.

[bruno22rf]

Whilst I have the greatest sympathy for current military personel suffering mental health issues, I cannot help but think of the members of ,for example, Bomber Command during the second world war. With many in their early 20's, and some not even that, they flew night after night over enemy skies knowing that they had little chance of survival, they were poorly prepared and minimally trained. Those that survived (and 56,000 did not) were treated as criminals post war and shunned by a society that totally refused to honour them for their sacrifice. Many thousands since have passed away and are forgotten by the many that were saved-where were their privilages and treatment when they needed it most?

[welsh1]

I agree that veterans need priority help...BUT....my slight issue is that I believe the MOD has a duty of care to those veterans to ensure they receive the level of support and treatment they need, whether still serving or in civvy street. All people with mental health problems need fast and effective treatment with a dedicated care pathway, in an ideal world I would reword the petition to kick the MOD into looking after the people it has so heavily relied upon.

As i have said there is already provision in the nhs for priority treatment for injuries received in service the hard part is to get local authorities and nhs trusts to accept them.

 

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Militaryhealthcare/Veteranshealthcare/Pages/veterans.aspx

Whilst I have the greatest sympathy for current military personel suffering mental health issues, I cannot help but think of the members of ,for example, Bomber Command during the second world war. With many in their early 20's, and some not even that, they flew night after night over enemy skies knowing that they had little chance of survival, they were poorly prepared and minimally trained. Those that survived (and 56,000 did not) were treated as criminals post war and shunned by a society that totally refused to honour them for their sacrifice. Many thousands since have passed away and are forgotten by the many that were saved-where were their privilages and treatment when they needed it most?

Society in large did not forget them,the powers that be decided to forget them,there is a vast difference.

[ordnance]

There can't be favorites when it comes to health care. I would not agree to people in any profession having preference over others. I would be happy to sign a petition for mental health provisions to be improved for all. A scenario your teenage daughter needs mental health assessment, someone that was in the military gets preferential treatment and fast tracked in front of your daughter. She goes on to kill herself .

 

 

As i have said there is already provision in the nhs for priority treatment for injuries received in service the hard part is to get local authorities and nhs trusts to accept them.

Do you think an injured soldier should be fast tracked or get preferential treatment over a child with serious injuries. ?

Edited March 17, 2015 by ordnance

[ben0850]

Welsh, I am in general agreement but from a professional viewpoint I'd like to better understand the issues faced, the blurb on the NHS website rightly relates to VRMHP and other services support. If the actual nub of the issue relates to timeframe and priority then I firmly believe the MOD should get its hand in its pocket to fast track those cases in need through either the NHS or a private provider such as St Andrews..

[welsh1]

There can't be favorites when it comes to health care. I would not agree to people in any profession having preference over others. I would be happy to sign a petition for mental health provisions to be improved for all. A scenario your teenage daughter needs mental health assessment, someone that was in the military gets preferential treatment and fast tracked in front of your daughter. She goes on to kill herself .

There are favourites in all aspects of health care from priority given to an active father who gets the hip replacement over the oap with no dependants,

Heart replacement given to younger recipients with better chance of accepting over someone with other ailments that might affect acceptance.

 

There are a myriad of other scenarios where people of differing circumstances are given priority treatment.

 

So sorry to disappoint but there has always been and will always be favourites,in the military context it is that covenant that mp's bang on about,soldiers put their life on line with the unspoken agreement that the country will give them the care and treatment that they may need while carrying out the orders of the government of the day even if they don't agree with the policies.

[grrclark]

This is a complex issue for me, I absolutely believe that our armed forces, in times of conflict, do earn and deserve special favour. They do a job that is exempt from the vast majority of the protection that are afforded to us civvies and typically they do that for what is comparatively lesser rate of pay and with significant personal sacrifice.

 

As the NHS and MOD are both limbs of the government then it makes absolute sense that the NHS should be tasked with looking after the physical and mental health and wellbeing of our service men and women. That makes sense economically. As such there should be a fast track channel for our forces personnel, but that should not be at the cost or detriment to the rest of the populace.

 

If the system is operating at maximum capacity then to honour the covenant that exists between the country and our armed forces then we need to increase capacity, it is as simple as that.

 

At an individual person level our service folk are no more deserving of treatment than anybody else, but there is, quite rightly, a special contract that exists with them and that should and must be honoured.

[ordnance]

There are favourites in all aspects of health care from priority given to an active father who gets the hip replacement over the oap with no dependants,

Heart replacement given to younger recipients with better chance of accepting over someone with other ailments that might affect acceptance.

 

I am talking more about equals, a soldier loses a leg in battle, a civilian loses a leg in a car crash, I don't see how anyone can argue that the soldier should be fast tracked or have preferential treatment over the civilian, the same goes for mental health issues. As a soldier would you want to get preferential treatment over a member of your family etc. ?

Edited March 17, 2015 by ordnance

[ben0850]

This is a complex issue for me, I absolutely believe that our armed forces, in times of conflict, do earn and deserve special favour. They do a job that is exempt from the vast majority of the protection that are afforded to us civvies and typically they do that for what is comparatively lesser rate of pay and with significant personal sacrifice.

 

As the NHS and MOD are both limbs of the government then it makes absolute sense that the NHS should be tasked with looking after the physical and mental health and wellbeing of our service men and women. That makes sense economically. As such there should be a fast track channel for our forces personnel, but that should not be at the cost or detriment to the rest of the populace.

 

If the system is operating at maximum capacity then to honour the covenant that exists between the country and our armed forces then we need to increase capacity, it is as simple as that.

 

At an individual person level our service folk are no more deserving of treatment than anybody else, but there is, quite rightly, a special contract that exists with them and that should and must be honoured.

Eloquently put and along my lines of thought. The real problem is the vast under investment in mental health services whether that be community based support or an inpatient unit, it is still very common for someone detained under a S136 to be held in police custody as the local NHS trust have no appropriate 136 suite available..

[welsh1]

I am talking more about equals, a soldier loses a leg in battle, a civilian loses a leg in a car crash, I don't see how anyone can argue that the soldier should be fast tracked or have preferential treatment over the civilian, the same goes for mental health issues. As a soldier would you want to get preferential treatment over a member of your family etc. ?

Then you do not understand the covenant that exists and the complexities of military life.

 

When a soldier loses his leg, it is usually through an AP mine his leg is ripped off,dirt and **** and fragments are forced into his body, his ear drums usually burst and his eye sight is affected by the blast, if he is lucky it is only one limb he loses,he is in a remote area that is dangerous to extract him and the highly trained medic is the only hope he has immediately of surviving from the shock and blood loss,he is casi vaced to a field hospital where he is stabilised enough to be flown back to the uk,this could be weeks away,and then he gets to the uk and continues treatment.

His mates also have suffered by seeing him blown up they have heard his screams as he is treated, and probably assisted the medic,they have also had the possibility in their minds that they are also in a minefield and quite possibly being shot at.

They are still expected to continue their tour with the image in their mind and the possibility they may be next.

 

I fully agree with you that losing a limb is tragic for anyone,but the environment you are in and how you lose it has a great bearing and impact on your future recovery and treatment.

 

As for your last sentence,you ask any soldier who should be treated first and they will say the other person,that is just the way it is.

 

 

We seem to have this argument about the armed forces on a regular basis,from getting discounts in shops to this,why can some people not accept that there are a few things the armed forces get that the rest do not ?

[ordnance]

 

Then you do not understand the covenant that exists and the complexities of military life.

 

When a soldier loses his leg, it is usually through an AP mine his leg is ripped off,dirt and **** and fragments are forced into his body, his ear drums usually burst and his eye sight is affected by the blast, if he is lucky it is only one limb he loses,he is in a remote area that is dangerous to extract him and the highly trained medic is the only hope he has immediately of surviving from the shock and blood loss,he is casi vaced to a field hospital where he is stabilised enough to be flown back to the uk,this could be weeks away,and then he gets to the uk and continues treatment.

We are talking about treatment on the NHS not the treatment they receive on the battle field. Living in Northern Ireland I am well aware what bombs do. I will put it another way a soldier and a civilian in Northern Ireland or any other part of the UK they both have their a leg blown off in the same incident, do you think the soldier should have preferential treatment fast tracked ahead of the civilian during and after the incident. ?

Edited March 17, 2015 by ordnance

[welsh1]

We are talking about treatment on the NHS not the treatment they receive on the battle field. Living in Northern Ireland I am well aware what bombs do. I will put it another way a soldier and a civilian in Northern Ireland or any other part of the UK they both have their a leg blown off in the same incident, do you think the soldier should have preferential treatment fast tracked ahead of the civilian during and after the incident. ?

No one will get preferential treatment in the uk if the same injury occurs at the same time.

 

The soldier will later on get preferential treatment, because like it or not he was serving his country away from his family and this is one of the unspoken agreements between service personnel and our government.if you don't like it i don't care.

[ordnance]

 

if you don't like it i don't care.

Simple question if you were a soldier injured or needing mental health treatment, would want preference over a member of your family. Or is it ok if you have preference over a member of someone's family. ? That's is what it boils down to, if you get in first you are jumping the queue on someone else.

[welsh1]

Simple question if you were a soldier injured or needing mental health treatment, would want preference over a member of your family. Or is it ok if you have preference over a member of someone's family. ? That's is what it boils down to, if you get in first you are jumping the queue on someone else.

And you have a problem with this, i have pointed out preferential treatment is given to a myriad of people every day within the nhs.

[ordnance]

 

And you have a problem with this, i have pointed out preferential treatment is given to a myriad of people every day within the nhs.

And as I pointed out with equal problems, two family members both have depression, you think because one was a soldier they should have preference over the other. I know if I was a soldier I would not want preference over equally deserving civilians, and I am surprised if that is what soldiers are asking for. Another example a soldier is injured in the battle field, a civilian is injured in the 7 July 2005 London bombings both have mental health problems as a result of their injuries, you think the soldier should be able to jump the queue for treatment in front of the civilian. ? Better a petition to improve mental health treatment for all.

Edited March 17, 2015 by ordnance

[grrclark]

Ordnance, there is a covenant between the country and our armed forces that says if a service person is injured in the course of their duties then we will expedite their treatment as recognition of the potential sacrifice that they make.

 

If, through combat operations, they suffer physical or mental trauma then we have a duty to make sure they receive the treatment that they were promised.

 

You're quite right then when it comes down to an individual human level that no person should be worth more than another, although we know that isn't true across all walks of life.

 

The issue here isn't so much of them deserving special favour, they have been promised it. We (the country) should either not write cheques that we can't cash or we need to live up to the promise.

[welsh1]

And as I pointed out with equal problems, two family members both have depression, you think because one was a soldier they should have preference over the other. I know if I was a soldier I would not want preference over equally deserving civilians, and I am surprised if that is what soldiers are asking for.

Do you actually understand what the preferential system is?

 

Before 2008 if you were a soldier serving abroad,and you were ill or needed an operation and had to leave the Army you came back to the uk and were put on the bottom of all the lists for the nhs,you might have been ill for a year while in the Army waiting to be discharged,but the person in the uk who had the same illness for a month was above you on the waiting list because you were serving your country abroad,you have no say where you are posted in the world.

 

The preferential treatment does not mean that you miraculously go straight to the top of the waiting list,it means you are assessed as a veteran, and this is taken into account when allocating you space on the waiting list

[ordnance]

 

The preferential treatment does not mean that you miraculously go straight to the top of the waiting list,it means you are assessed as a veteran, and this is taken into account when allocating you space on the waiting list.

That's fair enough, maybe I am misunderstanding the petition. I have no issue with them being fast tracked to seek treatment, as long as it doesn't mean jumping the queue in front of people with similar mental issues of which their are numerous types and causes.

 

 

It is thought around 4% of military veterans suffer some kind of mental health crisis, as a result of serving. Post traumatic stress disorder been one of the main mental health issues. At present there no adequate mental health provisions To ensure that Veterans are fast tracked for mental health care and services many veterans fail to get the care they need when they need it most. We urge the Chief of the Defence Staff to look at the provisions and to ensure that Veterans are fast tracked for mental health care.