LondonLuke Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 UV tracking power is a good investment if the problem is ongoing, provides excellent insight into entry/exit points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 UV tracking power is a good investment if the problem is ongoing, provides excellent insight into entry/exit points. A UV light/torch will also help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Speak to Evo he is ace at mouse hunting. :lol: and I,ve got a video to prove just how good I am :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruity Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) :lol: and I,ve got a video to prove just how good I am :lol: Lol the penny dropped reading that , nearly spat tea everywhere Edited March 22, 2015 by fruity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 A UV light/torch will also help! Haha. Yes probably should have mentioned that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 mustard gas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I think you will find the % active ingredient for DIY and Trade in ready to use product is almost always the same these days, commonly 0.005% with the two most common, Difenacoum and Bromadiolone. The difference, and potential reason for resistance/immunity, is that Professionals allegedly know how to use the stuff, and do use it correctly, and DIY amateurs don't! It certainly wasn't the same % generally, when I worked in pest control! But that was more than 35 Years ago! As regards poison resistance as an example I had a commercial job on a chicken farm where the owners had being trying for many months (if not years?) to control a heavy (and ever increasing) infestation of mice themselves, they had a storeroom with a pallet full of sacks of a well known ready mixed rodenticide they had purchased to try to control them, which was now riddled with mice!.......they were living in their food supply!.....and there was no sign that they were suffering any ill effects!.... I believe that indicated they had built up a resistance to that particular rodenticide....and it wouldn't have mattered who put it down at baiting points, expert or amateur......it wouldn't have worked for either! But I concede that a professional should, through expertise, be more successful than an amateur, consequently the misuse of rodenticides by amateurs may also be a contributory factor to rodents developing resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) It certainly wasn't the same % generally, when I worked in pest control! But that was more than 35 Years ago! As regards poison resistance as an example I had a commercial job on a chicken farm where the owners had being trying for many months (if not years?) to control a heavy (and ever increasing) infestation of mice themselves, they had a storeroom with a pallet full of sacks of a well known ready mixed rodenticide they had purchased to try to control them, which was now riddled with mice!.......they were living in their food supply!.....and there was no sign that they were suffering any ill effects!.... I believe that indicated they had built up a resistance to that particular rodenticide....and it wouldn't have mattered who put it down at baiting points, expert or amateur......it wouldn't have worked for either! But I concede that a professional should, through expertise, be more successful than an amateur, consequently the misuse of rodenticides by amateurs may also be a contributory factor to rodents developing resistance. Take a look at the % active ingredients in the likes of Ratak and Contrac Blox, you will find the % to be the same as DIY product generally. If the rodents have built up an immunity nothing is going to change that, either Professional or DIY, but the immunity is most commonly built up by incorrect use of rodenticides, and that incorrect use is generally blamed on Amateurs and not Professionals, it isn't anything to do with the % of active ingredient, it is almost certainly the incorrect use of the product as you suggest in your last sentence! Edited March 22, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I dont like rodenticides. I wonder what effect they have on birds of prey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I dont like rodenticides. I wonder what effect they have on birds of prey. They work on body weight so I don't think they would have untoward effects on birds of prey. When you calculate what a human would have to eat it's pounds and pounds so imagine birds would also be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 They work on body weight so I don't think they would have untoward effects on birds of prey. When you calculate what a human would have to eat it's pounds and pounds so imagine birds would also be safe. I'm not going to eat pounds and pounds of mice in the name of science. I'll eat one and thats my best offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I dont like rodenticides. I wonder what effect they have on birds of prey. Very little IF USED CORRECTLY. There have been some documented cases of alleged deliberate poisoning of Birds of Prey. Secondary poisoning is pretty hard due to the volume of rodents they would need to eat, most of which die down the hole they live in anyway and are not found lying about to be eaten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Take a look at the % active ingredients in the likes of Ratak and Contrac Blox, you will find the % to be the same as DIY product generally. If the rodents have built up an immunity nothing is going to change that, either Professional or DIY, but the immunity is most commonly built up by incorrect use of rodenticides, and that incorrect use is generally blamed on Amateurs and not Professionals, it isn't anything to do with the % of active ingredient, it is almost certainly the incorrect use of the product as you suggest in your last sentence! Immunity/resistance is developed/built up in all animals by ingesting/feeding/injecting small amounts of the active ingredient (in this case poison) in non fatal doses. In rodents, that immunity/resistance would be acquired by several non-fatal doses eaten and/or the % of active ingredient, multiple dose poisons (as opposed to acute poisons) will facilitate this. How do you suggest the mice I gave in my example ate their fill of rodenticide, they cannot bring food back up (be sick) so they must digest it! therefore it must pass through their system, but it did not kill them, Why? This example has nothing whatsoever to do with amateur or professional pest control! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Very little IF USED CORRECTLY. There have been some documented cases of alleged deliberate poisoning of Birds of Prey. Secondary poisoning is pretty hard due to the volume of rodents they would need to eat, most of which die down the hole they live in anyway and are not found lying about to be eaten. Secondary poisoning in non-target animals is not uncommon, what effect if any it has depends on the type of poison and the amount ingested, I don't know the quantity of a given poison a given animal/bird can eat in its food before it is fatal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 wish I could catch the mouse that keeps eating my koi pellets,, think I,ll buy a cat and lock it in the shed,,i,ll put a trail cam in to video the death aswell :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Immunity/resistance is developed/built up in all animals by ingesting/feeding/injecting small amounts of the active ingredient (in this case poison) in non fatal doses. In rodents, that immunity/resistance would be acquired by several non-fatal doses eaten and/or the % of active ingredient, multiple dose poisons (as opposed to acute poisons) will facilitate this. How do you suggest the mice I gave in my example ate their fill of rodenticide, they cannot bring food back up (be sick) so they must digest it! therefore it must pass through their system, but it did not kill them, Why? This example has nothing whatsoever to do with amateur or professional pest control! They most certainly didn't move into a bait store, eat vast quantities of bait/poison and build up immunity that way, that is a sure fire way to kill them all. The example you gave meant mice were immune before they moved into the poison store, this immunity was most likely built up by previous incorrect usage of rodenticide! Most commonly this is caused by not putting enough out to start with and/or not keeping it topped up. I get comments like these all the time from clients who gave up and eventually called in a professional...all they do is eat the bait, I put a saucer of bait out last month and when I checked it 2 weeks ago it was empty, so I filled it up again and it was empty yesterday, the stuff is useless, it doesn't work, there are hundreds of them still running about! They don't have a clue but are always quick to blame the bait. Edited March 22, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorismyhero Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 wish I could catch the mouse that keeps eating my koi pellets,, think I,ll buy a cat and lock it in the shed,,i,ll put a trail cam in to video the death aswell :lol: A man of YOUR calibre needing to get in hired hands (paws?) Tsk, whats the world comming to..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Secondary poisoning in non-target animals is not uncommon, what effect if any it has depends on the type of poison and the amount ingested, I don't know the quantity of a given poison a given animal/bird can eat in its food before it is fatal! It will be different in different birds/animals for each different "poison", but generally it is all but impossible to suffer fatal results through secondary poisoning by eating dead/poisoned rodents because the volume of rodents required to be eaten with modern/legal rodenticides would almost certainly make this a physical impossibility. The weight required would be dramatically more than the LD 50 of the poison itself as it is diluted so much in the corpse! Secondary poisoning is uncommon, and is VERY rarely fatal if the rodenticide is USED CORRECTLY. Edited March 22, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.