Do you think a 38mm projectile is too big for deer or......catastrophi

[LeadWasp]

......catastrophic failure of a Roedale moderator.

 

So there I was unhappily shooting my rifle wondering why it refused to group when half the Roedale Delta mod blew off and shot 70 yds downrange.

 

Properly assembled, properly screwed on the barrel the front baffle sections left the rear muzzle section by stripping all 2 (YES ONLY 2) thread turns. This is despite every section bearing a proof house stamp. The mod has only seen 70 rounds through it.

 

According to the BDS guy I was with this is the second Roedale he has seen fail this year. At least my gun groups well enough now .....................

Edited April 5, 2015 by LeadWasp

[Underdog]

I keep telling folk but they won't listen. Buy some ear plugs and bin the the stupid things

[LeadWasp]

...wish you'd told me ha ha!

Edited April 5, 2015 by LeadWasp

[Traztaz]

Lead wasp, PM sent to you

[PeteDE]

LeadWasp.

 

I have registered here to enable me to reply to your problem. ( and by the way Traztaz raves about this site and from what ive seen so far i will stick around too )

 

Firstly. Im very sorry you have encountered a problem with one of our moderators. As Traztaz has already pm'd you i'd just like to add a couple of points.

 

Inaccuracy with mod fitted leads me to 2 conclusions. 1: Either the projectiles where clipping, or 2: the bore of the moderator was too large and gas was getting past the projectile causing the projectile to fly through turbulance

 

1: Caused by: A: inaccurate threading on the rifle,B: shoulder behind thread not machined square, C: shoulder behind thread and the OD of the rifle barrel not bieng large enough to provide adequate butt up of moderator against shoulder. D. Deposits of anodising distributed unproportionately within moderator threads. E: Moderator threads bieng off centre. F: Possible incorrect Baffle bore sat somewhere in the baffle stack. G: Baffles not correctly tightened to eachother and to the expansion chamber. H: Projectile not stable in flight directly in front of the muzzle (in this case you will not nesseceraly see clipping, the lightest of interaction between projectile and baffle will be detrimental to accuracy).

2: Caused by, Using a moderator with a too large bore.. e.g., a .30cal mod on a .243 can cause this, depending on the dsign of the mod and the turbulances caused inside the mod.

 

You mention the mod only having 2 threads connection the baffles to eachother and to the blast chamber. Yes this is a cause for concern if the baffles are only hand tightened to eachother, if the baffles are permitted to unturn during firing by as little as 1/4 turn they can separate.. We have never had a problem here in Germany with Ultralight Moderators tightened properly together by us prior to sale. We have however had some back from ( less than a dozen and a half) Sportsman in the UK that upon investigation where found to have separated in a not fully tightened state.. this is simple to spot as when the baffles separate they cause shear marks across the threads. making it absolutely obviouse in which possition the baffles where when it happened. All separated baffles stacks that we have seen to date could be put down to this problem.

 

We doubled the number of connecting threads in (from memory) 2011 to prevent this happening... our idea bieng that the user would notice loose baffles before they separate if the baffles have twice as much thread which would need to unscrew. We have not had a single case of separated baffles on this later model with double the thread length... and we have had guys putting them on .300weatherby magnums (against our advice as the Ultralight is rated for standard calibers and not Magnums) over here. Both Traztaz and I regularly use and abuse these moderators, putting 190rds through in 45 minutes in the driven bore cinema range, or up to 300 rounds in a day on the 300m range, or on the long term test, well over 2500rds counting.

 

I strongly suspect that you have recieved a moderator that was assempled from parts. Which is fine provided they are tightened together with the correct tools and not only hand tight.

 

Please contact the people who sold you the rifle/ moderator package.. If you do not get any joy. please contact me directly, I have a friend with an RFD in your area who can take your moderator and ship it to us and also provide you with a replacement.

 

I would love to see photos, can you possibly email me some.

 

I would like to add that I / We stand 100% behind our moderators and that we are aware of cases of assembly error in the UK - we make every effort to help anyone who has a problem, irrelevant of the outcome with the vendor.

 

Please feel free to email or call me or provide me with a number where i can contact you. Please keep me updated with progress.

 

Kindest Regards Pete

Edited April 8, 2015 by PeteDE

[LeadWasp]

Hi Pete

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to post (and for Traztaz's PM's too). I will get in touch directly most likely tomorrow as I've just had an op and the anaesthetic is not making for a coherent LeadWasp.

[PeteDE]

No trouble at all. Speedy recovery from the op..

[Bewsher500]

I had the weld fail at the rear of a PES T12

 

old design, now discontinued, poor weld quality and material quality

If a TIG welded seam can fail then 2 turns of thread can

[The Mighty Prawn]

Wow if only GMK would read their threads and jump in like that!

[Traztaz]

All I can say is we do it different................ better maybe?

[Dunkield]

Yes, well done to Traztaz and PeteDe for seeing this thread and stepping up to the plate here.

[LeadWasp]

Just had a very good conversation with Pete at Roedale which backs up both the speed and content of his intervention (above). To be fair I think Roedale may have been done a disservice by the vendor.

[Traztaz]

cheers Dunkield

Cheers Leadwasp

[PeteDE]

Leadwasp.. thanks for the conversation today, good to touch base. As I explained. Roedale of today is not the Roedale of a few years ago and the bad press that some folk can't let go of, alone, dealing with 2 jobs, ill parents (RIP) and ill wife(Good Riddance) are things of the past. Today we are Germany's leading moderator manufacturer, 4 permanent staff, 2 very good subcontractors and a customer service that isn't perfect, but we do our best in what any gunsmith will tell you is a difficult job.

 

Replacement moderator is packed and ready.

 

Had to chuckle at a complaint today..

 

You'll like this.

 

Just had a .30cal Ultralight mod back from Austria, complete with a Steyr Mannlicher. Customer complains that the projectiles are catching the end cap.. he's had a hundred rounds through it and his groups are larger with mod fitted..

 

.30cal mod..........slight strike on the end cap.... A look at the rifle and all becomes clear.. .. the caliber he is using is an 8x68S the bore on the .30cal mods is simply too tight for 8mm projectiles,, which is why we have 8mm moderators...

 

But it goes to show you that the upgraded design certainly can take punishment..

[seeker]

Been using one on an x55 for a year .. light, quiet and solidly screwed together... good to hear there's a good back up service because the plan was to just replace any burnt baffles as/if/when.

[PeteDE]

Seeker. glad to hear that. Feel free to contact us anytime for replacement parts.

 

regards

[Traztaz]

[PeteDE]

Lead Wasp.. Hows the testing going, you must have been out with the new mod by now. ? Rgds Pete

[flynny]

Bang on PeteDE and Traztaz,

 

good to know there are some good businesses out there, who supply good back up for there products

 

Top notch Gents,

 

ATB

 

Flynny

[10gaugewannabee]

well done all for sorting a bad situation out so quickly, 10 out of 10 for effort

know if you can have words with marchine mart and and few other companies i have to deal with i woud be very greatfull, lol

[LeadWasp]

Pete has done a lot to help me and reverse a situation that was not apparently a result of their doing but seems to be down to the retailer - enough said for the moment but I expect Pete will comment later on....

 

Pete, heading out onto the Downs tomorrow (Fri) morning to re-zero. The stalking syndicate were out this week so I didn't want to spook their victims.

Edited April 23, 2015 by LeadWasp

[figgy]

Well done nice to see companies back their products and good customer service

[LeadWasp]

Well I have to say this is a story with a happy ending. I took Roedale's solution out today and put 68 rounds of varying makes and weights through it. It has performed admirably!

 

I have a factory Prohunter synthetic which is very light and has not got a great trigger. It bucks like a mule on a bipod and at the moment is really unmanageable without a mod. The Roedale now makes it a completely different kettle of fish and tames it - far better in fact than the original assembly I was sold by 'the retailer'. I had a best tight group with Sako 117gr with every round touching at 100yds. When I've compressed the pics I'll post them. I will also post the original shots with the mod as it was sold so you can see the difference. To be honest I've gone from down in the dumps to over the moon. It's been an expensive afternoon ammunition wise but I'm chuffed to bits.

 

I'm normally very cautious about hearing damage but to be honest it was a lovely afternoon and about a third of the way through I binned the ear defenders and shot happily with no noticeable adverse effects. So it is light, doesn't affect the balance of the gun, significantly reduces the recoil and nicely tames the bark. What more can you want from a mod.

 

So a BIG thank you to Traztaz and Pete at Reodale for stepping in and turning everything around. They did this at their own cost and put the indifferent response of 'the retailer' to shame. Respect is due! If anyone else is interested in obtaining one they are excellent value so talk to Roedale directly!

Edited April 25, 2015 by LeadWasp

[LeadWasp]

Here are the pics........

OK so having bought the original mod/baffle configuration from a gun shop I was somewhat foxed as to what was going on as I couldn't get a zero (see below) and the obvious things to look for were not amiss.

 

 

Then the mod baffles blew apart. However luckily Pete and Traztaz at Roedale stepped in and provided this solution

...and so I had a lovely afternoon making some (small) noise and achieving this - 100yds.

Edited April 25, 2015 by LeadWasp

[LeadWasp]

Boom!!