archi Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 I have a Miroku mk60 arriving soon but they come as 14 3/4" length as standard but according to my stock measuring taken by H&H I should have a 15 1/8" stock. Now the question is will 3/8" less make any difference if I get the cast and comb Highgate set correctly. If it goes need lengthening are the Isis pads able to be fitted without having the stock cut flat? Hopefully WW will be along to answer as this is his area. I am tempted to leave it and get the chokes opened out slightly from 3/4 & full to 1/2 & 3/4 so I can use it with steel etc Thanks Archi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 How have they arrived at the assertion that you need a 15 1/8" length stock ? Only you can know what you need, so much depends on many variables such as your grip, the trigger reach, where you hold the fore end, your general address posture, where you hold the gun prior to calling pull, the discipline you shoot, etc, etc. Get the gun and shoot it, then decide for yourself, small washers placed between the stock and pad will help. If and when you decide you want a Green pad or full Isis, a competent fitter will advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 How have they arrived at the assertion that you need a 15 1/8" length stock ? By conducting a Gunfit quite simple really. Yes 3/8" will make a difference, you paid a fair wack of cash to get the dimension use them! ISIS pads generally needed a flat stock to fit well, however they have made me one to fit a curved stock, it was ok but not as good as flat stocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archi Posted May 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Many thanks In that case I will get the stock length set correctly as yes the full gun fit did cost a fair few quid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archi Posted May 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Many thanks In that case I will get the stock length set correctly as yes the full gun fit did cost a fair few quid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 By conducting a Gunfit quite simple really. Yes 3/8" will make a difference, you paid a fair wack of cash to get the dimension use them! ISIS pads generally needed a flat stock to fit well, however they have made me one to fit a curved stock, it was ok but not as good as flat stocks. Kind of the point I was trying to make, personally just don't believe you can arrive at such precise LOP measurements in dry fitting so to speak. Almost to the point of being bombastic in fact, nocando. It takes live rounds to arrive at the happy length and it just depends so much on who is driving the gun. The OP should realistically shoot the gun and decide for himself, just cranking the length up to 15 1/8" just because someone charged a lot to tell him that is naive - in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Isn't that the whole point of try guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Kind of the point I was trying to make, personally just don't believe you can arrive at such precise LOP measurements in dry fitting so to speak. Almost to the point of being bombastic in fact, nocando. It takes live rounds to arrive at the happy length and it just depends so much on who is driving the gun. The OP should realistically shoot the gun and decide for himself, just cranking the length up to 15 1/8" just because someone charged a lot to tell him that is naive - in my view. A Gunfit requires the shooting of the gun at a pattern plate and moving targets its more than just a quick look at a dry mounted gun. Try guns are/can be used, how do you think bespoke made guns like Hollands and Hollands or Purdey's are made to the right dimensions? I not just Magic the buyer goes and has a Gunfit and the the gun is made to those dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 A Gunfit requires the shooting of the gun at a pattern plate and moving targets its more than just a quick look at a dry mounted gun. Try guns are/can be used, how do you think bespoke made guns like Hollands and Hollands or Purdey's are made to the right dimensions? I not just Magic the buyer goes and has a Gunfit and the the gun is made to those dimensions. Correct in many ways but I disagree that a Try Gun (which almost always happen to be side by side) can seamlessly translate into the different ergonomics of another gun, particularly so when talking about a new O/U and the OP has not indicated that prolonged live firing on moving target was involved !? It's true bespoke guns are made to customer specs and dimensions and cost a lot but whether that is always 100% right and beyond reproach is open to debate. Isn't that the whole point of try guns? Yes but there is no substitute for real world experimentation and application of ones own experience and input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Correct in many ways but I disagree that a Try Gun (which almost always happen to be side by side) can seamlessly translate into the different ergonomics of another gun, particularly so when talking about a new O/U and the OP has not indicated that prolonged live firing on moving target was involved !? It's true bespoke guns are made to customer specs and dimensions and cost a lot but whether that is always 100% right and beyond reproach is open to debate. Yes but there is no substitute for real world experimentation and application of ones own experience and input. Try guns are the type of gun you want in the bore you want with the barrel length you want, the big shooting schools have numerous gun to choice from, obviously they can't have everything but they cover nearly all the common options in SbS and over and under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 If it helps the discussion, I was given my stock dimensions by West London years ago, they were taken from trial and error from a try gun. I bought a new gun and had the stock altered to those dimensions. Years later as part of a shooting lesson at Churchill's I had the fit checked by two instructors there who said the fit was perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 There have been documented cases where people have been to different gun fitting sessions and been given different recipes as perfect dimensions - although I do appreciate that doesn't really help this discussion. Try guns are the type of gun you want in the bore you want with the barrel length you want, the big shooting schools have numerous gun to choice from, obviously they can't have everything but they cover nearly all the common options in SbS and over and under. Correct again, although I have not seen an O/U one myself ever. Incidentally there are also documented cases of people replicating the dimensions of an old favourite onto a new gun and finding they couldn't shoot it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 If it helps the discussion, I was given my stock dimensions by West London years ago, they were taken from trial and error from a try gun. I bought a new gun and had the stock altered to those dimensions. Years later as part of a shooting lesson at Churchill's I had the fit checked by two instructors there who said the fit was perfect. So why do you miss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Hamster I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one, so we don't continue to derail the OPs thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I'm not an expert on this but having been fitted for two guns by competent gunsmiths I've an OU and a SBS and the SBS is 3/8ths shorter LOP than the OU. The OU is the newer gun and when fitted for this it was suggested I try the gun out for a few days before the stock was shortened. This was 6yrs ago and I shoot both guns well (at times!!) and although I can't explain why the OU does seem to need the extra length. With both guns cast was altered slightly and the SBS shortened and it was a full half day in the RFd's shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Hamster I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one, so we don't continue to derail the OPs thread. Well said. The discussion was going no where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Well said. The discussion was going no where. Quite right - until ND spoke up. Get it, try it, if necessary get a cheap slip on recoil pad that will allow thin 'shims' to be added, lash out on a box of cartridges and try it at a plate and 16 and then 40 yards. Then, when you have an idea of what's what, if necessary have it fine tuned by a professional. Careful with having the choke done, though. Say, using 1 1/8oz of No 6s, one step up will give just c15 extra pellets in the pattern of which c one half will end up in the 'kill zone'. It's arguable that 2 steps (1/4 by 3/4, say) has some advantage. The most adaptable stock adjuster can often be the human body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archi Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yes shall get it altered to exact stock fitting measurements and is it comes choked at 3/4 & full I may well just get the full opened up to 3/4 for now and see how i go. And yes having my old gun altered to the o/u try gun measurements seemed to help no end as originally what they thought at H&H by eyesight would be ok was shooting very low as shown by the pattern plate and basic going away targets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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