kennym Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 well i never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I might just point out I don't read everybody's posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Did you read the one asking why .22lr is easier to shoot than wmr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 No just missed it sorry. Basically it has less inherent accuracy ( being essential developed as a personal defence round in small handbag guns) and increased windages over the LR the spin is it drops less ? Small potatoes IMO . Yes even the .308 in the wrong spot wont work good as you state, so what chance has a WMR? Of course people can try and twist what I actually said and try and look clever but my first post on the matter was typed by me and should answer all further questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 No just missed it sorry. Basically it has less inherent accuracy ( being essential developed as a personal defence round in small handbag guns) and increased windages over the LR the spin is it drops less ? Small potatoes IMO . Yes even the .308 in the wrong spot wont work good as you state, so what chance has a WMR? Of course people can try and twist what I actually said and try and look clever but my first post on the matter was typed by me and should answer all further questions. stick to shooting ducks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Wmr= Winchester magnum rimfire. 167paces, off hand. c109 &&0 U. Bloody unlucky rabbit !!!. A Edited June 14, 2015 by Alycidon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 quite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) As you likely know, Essex won't allow HMR for Fox, last time I asked it was a a no no. However, .22 WMR is acceptable for fox in Essex. Of course, you can shoot a fox dead with a HMR (Or .22LR as Underdog rightly proves regularly on here) but Essex Firearms say .22 WMR smallest. My friend has came to my permission in Essex with his WMR before and we did some shooting of rabbits with my HMR and his WMR and in fairness, there wasn't that bad a damage from them - no worse than the HMR - but if you go for the head then it doesn't matter a jot anyhow as most wouldn't be eating the head. Edited to add: I shoot near Halstead and you are welcome to throw a few HMR rounds out of my gun if you wanted... Edited June 15, 2015 by Mentalmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) As you likely know, Essex won't allow HMR for Fox, last time I asked it was a a no no. However, .22 WMR is acceptable for fox in Essex. Of course, you can shoot a fox dead with a HMR (Or .22LR as Underdog rightly proves regularly on here) but Essex Firearms say .22 WMR smallest. My friend has came to my permission in Essex with his WMR before and we did some shooting of rabbits with my HMR and his WMR and in fairness, there wasn't that bad a damage from them - no worse than the HMR - but if you go for the head then it doesn't matter a jot anyhow as most wouldn't be eating the head. Edited to add: I shoot near Halstead and you are welcome to throw a few HMR rounds out of my gun if you wanted... It isn't down to the region to make that decision, the latest Home Office guide makes it clear that rimfires, including .22lr as appropriate, are suitable for fox. If they don't like that they should be arguing with their Head Office, not laying down rules that go against their Head Office. Yes, the guide is a guide but the idea is to help interpret legislation and ensure regions apply it evenly. If you were to present this issue in court and wave the Home Office guidelines at the judge/jury who do you think they would accept, the Organ Grinder or the monkey? Edited June 15, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 It isn't down to the region to make that decision, the latest Home Office guide makes it clear that rimfires, including .22lr as appropriate, are suitable for fox. If they don't like that they should be arguing with their Head Office, not laying down rules that go against their Head Office. Yes, the guide is a guide but the idea is to help interpret legislation and ensure regions apply it evenly. If you were to present this issue in court and wave the Home Office guidelines at the judge/jury who do you think they would accept, the Organ Grinder or the monkey? I agree with you Dekers, and many foxes do go down in Essex to the HMR from a lot of people, however my point is more that some people wouldn't want to hassle of getting in to trouble etc... especially if new to having a license etc... Besides, the chance of someone in the know, being present when you shoot a fox with a HMR are incredibly slim. That and you won't find many, including serving police officers who would know about the local calibre specific rules anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 If you ask they will say no. If you give them good reason they will grant it. The onus is on the applicant, not for them to be kind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 No just missed it sorry. Basically it has less inherent accuracy being essential developed as a personal defence round in small handbag guns) and increased windages over the LR the spin is it drops less ? Well I can only comment on mine but I have 2 x .22lr barrels in Sako Quad and 1x WMR barrel in Sako Quad so its a direct comparison I can shoot cloverleaf at 100yds with the WMR off a solid rest 22 is similarly accurate at 55yds, as for windage...can you explain? windage is a function of BC and this in turn is linked directly to velocity We know the velocity in the WMR is higher, almost double the bullets are also more often than not better profiles including VMax boat tailed .22lr RWS, 40-gr. LR Subsonic HP , 1000 MV, 90 ME, 0.092 BC WINCHESTER, 40-gr. LR Subsonic. HP, 1065 MV, 107 ME, 0.138 BC CCI, 40-gr. LR Std. Vel. Solid, 1070 MV, 100 ME, 0.105 BC Mean BC - 0.111 .22WMR REMINGTON, 33-gr. WMR Premier V-Max Boat Tail 2000 MV, 293 ME, 0.137 BC REMINGTON, 40-gr. WMR Jacketed HP , 1910 MV, 324 ME, 0.116 BC CCI, 40-gr. WMR Maxi-Mag Solid (0023), 1910 MV, 324 ME, 0.110 BC MeanBC = 0.121 its marginal at best but in favour of the WMR can't see how it is somehow worse off for windage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Good reply sir but somehow I think it is going to take a black hole to a parallel universe to swallow the drivel of an answer about to return! :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 I agree with you Dekers, and many foxes do go down in Essex to the HMR from a lot of people, however my point is more that some people wouldn't want to hassle of getting in to trouble etc... especially if new to having a license etc... Besides, the chance of someone in the know, being present when you shoot a fox with a HMR are incredibly slim. That and you won't find many, including serving police officers who would know about the local calibre specific rules anyhow. This continues to be a valid point with many people (especially new to FAC) being reluctant to question/straighten out (upset) a FEO or region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 .22 Hornet would be my choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) If i get an answer to a question that i feel maybe more personal opinion than fact/law . i ALWAYS ask if i can have that confirmed in writing . Funny how they they sometimes change there mind at that request haha. To be fare my feo is very good .and knows his stuff . Edited June 15, 2015 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 .22 Hornet would be my choice. I dont have much experience with the .22 hornet but when it comes to a head shot rabbit I cant see the .22 Hornet doing any more damage to a rabbit than a .17HMR or .22WMR . Surely head missing is just about as dead as it gets ? I have wanted a .22 Hornet for some time now for bunnys to 120yards and Fox to a max of 150yards. And so that I can enjoy reloading my own. How ever am not in a position yet to warrent the Hornet. ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Russell Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Deleted due to persec with hindsight Edited June 15, 2015 by Jay_Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 .338 Lap would not leave you much bunny Nice rifle, i bet that was fun on the range with that ! ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Russell Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 No it didnt leave much of anything! I think the scope/spotter was 3x12x50 now that was impressive itself. Vest improvement over the older 7.62 imo too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Russell Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 And i still remeber the 5 priciples of marksmanship.... Get off the bus Stoppage Stoppage Take to amourer who agrees u keep getting stopages Get on bus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 I dont have much experience with the .22 hornet but when it comes to a head shot rabbit I cant see the .22 Hornet doing any more damage to a rabbit than a .17HMR or .22WMR . Surely head missing is just about as dead as it gets ? I have wanted a .22 Hornet for some time now for bunnys to 120yards and Fox to a max of 150yards. And so that I can enjoy reloading my own. How ever am not in a position yet to warrent the Hornet. ATB Matt .22 Hornet makes a fine rabbit rifle, there is normally not as much damage as you might expect considering its at a guess three times more power than a WMR running 45 grn home loads. If you have hares to be shot its about the finest gun ever IMO, fox? my first choice if the range is going to be under 200 yards and its not real windy. You don't actually loose the head much of the time and chest shots are not too explosive but I rarely take them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well I can only comment on mine but I have 2 x .22lr barrels in Sako Quad and 1x WMR barrel in Sako Quad so its a direct comparison I can shoot cloverleaf at 100yds with the WMR off a solid rest 22 is similarly accurate at 55yds, as for windage...can you explain? windage is a function of BC and this in turn is linked directly to velocity We know the velocity in the WMR is higher, almost double the bullets are also more often than not better profiles including VMax boat tailed .22lr RWS, 40-gr. LR Subsonic HP , 1000 MV, 90 ME, 0.092 BC WINCHESTER, 40-gr. LR Subsonic. HP, 1065 MV, 107 ME, 0.138 BC CCI, 40-gr. LR Std. Vel. Solid, 1070 MV, 100 ME, 0.105 BC Mean BC - 0.111 .22WMR REMINGTON, 33-gr. WMR Premier V-Max Boat Tail 2000 MV, 293 ME, 0.137 BC REMINGTON, 40-gr. WMR Jacketed HP , 1910 MV, 324 ME, 0.116 BC CCI, 40-gr. WMR Maxi-Mag Solid (0023), 1910 MV, 324 ME, 0.110 BC MeanBC = 0.121 its marginal at best but in favour of the WMR can't see how it is somehow worse off for windage There is a stack of data on the net comparing .22 LR and .22 mag. As regards accuracy and wind, look it up if your actually interested bullets vary as do rifles and their likes and dislikes. I expect a good .LR to go sub 1" at 100 and be bullet on bullet near as makes no matter at 50 yards, prone scores in competition prove this also look at silhouette shooting in the USA out to 100 with .22 LR some of those targets are quite small and its not shot off a bench either ranging out to 100. Feed my .22 Remington and its a waste of time aiming it at 100! Inherent accuracy is always effected when a round passes back near the speed of sound (the transonic zone) only one reason I am surprised by your own findings- its not the norm but there has to be some magnums about that shoot good, altitude / pressure will help keep some mags out of transonic difficulties. One must shoot what one likes though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Transonic what? http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/314380-dont-believe-all-the-hype/?do=findComment&comment=2845621 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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