rwade545 Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 So I got bored in work and was reading some of the March 2015 home office guidelines for granting of firearms. Was thinking of getting a .17 hornet/.223 as in North Wales a .17hmr is not considered for fox. The guidelines page 122 say otherwise. Think I might bring this to my fao's attention! https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/417199/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v13.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 What the guidelines say and what your force will allow isn't always the same. The guidelines are just that "guidelines " not set in stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Reading the table it doesn't look like .204 ruger is suitable for fox does it? However the first sentences says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 What the guidelines say and what your force will allow isn't always the same. The guidelines are just that "guidelines " not set in stone. And thats why my FLO wont allow me to have fox againts a .22lr. Although my slot says .22 rim-fire ( doesnt say if .22lr or .22wmr when questioned they said I could have either under that) So I could buy a .22WMR but wouldnt have the fox condition against it although my HMR slot does. Not well thought threw IMO. Strange things these FLO`s and the different forces, nothing like a bit a gray area for clarity ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 And thats why my FLO wont allow me to have fox againts a .22lr. Although my slot says .22 rim-fire ( doesnt say if .22lr or .22wmr when questioned they said I could have either under that) So I could buy a .22WMR but wouldnt have the fox condition against it although my HMR slot does. Not well thought threw IMO. Strange things these FLO`s and the different forces, nothing like a bit a gray area for clarity ! My force was the same until they jumped on the Alq bandwagon, for the better in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Reading the table it doesn't look like .204 ruger is suitable for fox does it? However the first sentences says it all. Exactly...the idea that 1000FtLb at range won't ruin it's day. Isn't it awful when 'guidance' becomes a decision matrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Had this conversation and i was told ok for fox aslong as a clean kill (which is a stupid comment to make).. So i am able to use 17HMR aslong as I kill it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redditch Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Here they wouldn't even put Fox against a 22-250 LOL Everything on my FAC is vermin and pest control :( So fox apparently falls under that. That said, it's the identical statement in my FAC air rifle. The crunch of the matter is "under no circumstances should you cause an animal unnecessary suffering or wounding" If you can kill it instantly with the calibre at a set range, it's okay, if you can't DON'T USE THAT CALIBRE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Here they wouldn't even put Fox against a 22-250 LOL Everything on my FAC is vermin and pest control :( So fox apparently falls under that. That said, it's the identical statement in my FAC air rifle. The crunch of the matter is "under no circumstances should you cause an animal unnecessary suffering or wounding" If you can kill it instantly with the calibre at a set range, it's okay, if you can't DON'T USE THAT CALIBRE Exactly my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redditch Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 is the reason I use the 17hmr only on short range foxes (with a 20gr game point for improve penetration) 80 metres large dog foxes, 100 metres average vixens, and 120 metres Cubs. Keeping to those ranges ensures clean kills and no wounding. Anything above that and I use the 22-250 (that's what it's there for) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 is the reason I use the 17hmr only on short range foxes (with a 20gr game point for improve penetration) 80 metres large dog foxes, 100 metres average vixens, and 120 metres Cubs. Keeping to those ranges ensures clean kills and no wounding. Anything above that and I use the 22-250 (that's what it's there for) ...unless you badly place the shot of course but I am sure that this wouldnt happen. Head shots only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69chris Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 hmr is ok for fox here, along with my .308 but not a 22lr.................who am i to argue with the powers that be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 .17HMR and 22LR/WMR are all ok for fox, depending on distance shot but in reality by what county you're under! The guidelines are just that. Few FLOs are shooters, and their decision isn't what counts it's the force's policy enacted through them that decides. Seems bizarre that there isn't more joined up thinking and a nation-wide consensus, but there we are. You could argue that the old guidelines which specified kinetic energy required for each quarry type were also flawed because again, it didn't consider range. That's understandable as it's not something that can be policed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 According to that WMR is ok for fox but .22rf only 'in certain circumstance', yet the 'R' in WMR stands for 'rimfire'. Shouldn't that be .22lr for clarification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 According to that WMR is ok for fox but .22rf only 'in certain circumstance', yet the 'R' in WMR stands for 'rimfire'. Shouldn't that be .22lr for clarification? I would agree with you there. Lord knows why but the Home Office and police have a habit of using .22RF instead of .22lr, when of course .22RF includes WMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 What the guidelines say and what your force will allow isn't always the same. The guidelines are just that "guidelines " not set in stone. Indeed, but the H.O. guidelines are designed to even out interpretation of the various Firearms related Acts so they are administered even handedly around the UK. We all know this still doesn't happen, but in many cases this is because FAC holders don't want to rock the boat and don't question their region. In MANY instances when the likes of the BASC get involved you will find the region then falls in line the with HO guidelines. The Home Office doesn't go to all this trouble just to be ignored by their regional offices!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) And thats why my FLO wont allow me to have fox againts a .22lr. Although my slot says .22 rim-fire ( doesnt say if .22lr or .22wmr when questioned they said I could have either under that) So I could buy a .22WMR but wouldnt have the fox condition against it although my HMR slot does. Not well thought threw IMO. Strange things these FLO`s and the different forces, nothing like a bit a gray area for clarity ! I take it you have Vermin against your .22lr and other rifles. The latest 2015 Home Office guide makes it clear the HO consider Fox to be vermin. To my knowledge there was no such statement in the previous 2002 guide, hence why fox was commonly designated specifically as fox, this will no doubt continue in some regions regardless and I have no doubt many will continue to list fox as a named quarry for years to come, but vermin is fine according to the Home Office. So if your region list Vermin on your FAC they will have a job arguing against their Head Office that does not include fox. Edited June 20, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I take it you have Vermin against your .22lr and other rifles. The latest 2015 Home Office guide makes it clear the HO consider Fox to be vermin. To my knowledge there was no such statement in the previous 2002 guide, hence why fox was commonly designated specifically as fox, this will no doubt continue in some regions regardless and I have no doubt many will continue to list fox as a named quarry for years to come, but vermin is fine according to the Home Office. So if your region list Vermin on your FAC they will have a job arguing against their Head Office that does not include fox. Agreed. My .22rf is conditioned for vermin etc, and my .243 for vermin, fox and deer, but I have no qualms about shooting fox with my .22 also as fox are designated vermin. At next renewal it will be conditioned AOLQ, but that term wasn't in common usage at last renewal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Just to go back to the 22lr and 22rf . Yes in theory you could fill the 22rf slot with a wmr . However you would not be able to but ammo for it as the ammo is list on ticket as .22 wmr and not lr or rf . I think an rfd would have to be a bit of a dumb a55 to try an pull that one . As he would be pulled on his logs ..... Surly ? Also for the record my .22lr is down for any legal quarry also close range dispactch of fox ( trapped ) . Also vermin My win mag is any legal quarry . Fox . Vermin and ground game ( hare) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Things may have changed but when I had my .22WMR and my .22rf, all my ammunition was listed on my ticket as .22rf and my authorised possession capacity was 1000 rounds. I sold the .22 WMR and kept the ammo capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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